Proud to be English

[walshie 2,804]

8 minutes ago, Francie said:

So its ok for some folk to be kept in a veggie state but not others?

Look at stephen hawking for example, should the docs have let him die at 21???

He was more or less a f***ing robot, couldnt do f**k all except use his special chair.

Walshie the docs are assuming hes in pain, they dont know for certain.

Hawking wasn't in a vegetative state through was he? His brain was fine. The rest of him was f****d up. He wasn't relying on a machine to keep him alive either. 

Couldn't do f**k all. Lol. 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/chemical-suffocation-how-doctors-want-alfie-evans-to-die

Bit more in depth here......this was obviously 2 days ago and the little mite has been having to breath on his own from last night so it shows just what they know.......

Howling !

 

Not the best of sources that one, mate, given their track record. They have a reputation for less than reliable journalism and their parent organisation is anti-abortion, anti-euthanasia and a political lobbying group. Not saying it isn't true but it's going to need a thorough debunking to say that the NHS is essentially trying to euthanize the lad. The only sources I can find that says chemical suffocation link back to your link.

 

[WILF 46,832]

Just now, ChrisJones said:

 

Not the best of sources that one, mate, given their track record. They have a reputation for less than reliable journalism and their parent organisation is anti-abortion, anti-euthanasia and a political lobbying group. Not saying it isn't true but it's going to need a thorough debunking to say that the NHS is essentially trying to euthanize the lad. The only sources I can find that says chemical suffocation link back to your link.

 

I obviously can’t validate the source mate but those drugs are mentioned in the documents from what I can see of it.

Why are they there is the obvious question if the little lad will just slip quietly away without mechanical help (that has incidently been proved wrong last night) ? 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Just now, WILF said:

I obviously can’t validate the source mate but those drugs are mentioned in the documents from what I can see of it.

Why are they there is the obvious question if the little lad will just slip quietly away without mechanical help (that has incidently been proved wrong last night) ? 

True but that lobbying groups news site is the only mention of it that I can currently find.

The lad is currently defying the experts by breathing on his own but again how long and what about the quality of the time he has left? I agree with you that it's up to the parents, that's not for dispute but realistically the kid has a condition that is baffling experts so it's expected, IMHO, that any reaction at this point is purely educational on their part.

Devil's advocate... If this lad is going to go and these drugs ease his transition is it a bad thing?

[WILF 46,832]

That big word, IF, my friend.......if your sister had bollocks she’d be your brother as the saying go’s

He hasn’t gone and he is breathing......what’s the next “guess” with a young kids life ya know!

 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Just now, WILF said:

That big word, IF, my friend.......if your sister had bollocks she’d be your brother as the saying go’s

He hasn’t gone and he is breathing......what’s the next “guess” with a young kids life ya know!

 

Agreed mate but as internet pundits once more, we need to look at all the angles.

I'm not suggesting he should be given a cocktail of drugs but I'd like to think that if he was suffering on his way out there was something available to ease that.

If he was to live for the next 40 years in his current condition will the strain on the family be supported by everyone once the headline fades away from the front page? Who's decision will it be after he turns 18?

 

[WILF 46,832]

I’ll just add, anyone in the NHS seems to have some kind of hallowed status......well, it’s complete bollocks.

Theres as many shoddy 2 bob types working in the NHS as anywhere else.

So, they don’t know what’s wrong with him and they have got it totally wrong about him not being able to live without mechanical aid......I’m sorry, but if you are going to muller a private citizens little toddler it’s all got to be better than that imo 

[WILF 46,832]

Just now, ChrisJones said:

Agreed mate but as internet pundits once more, we need to look at all the angles.

I'm not suggesting he should be given a cocktail of drugs but I'd like to think that if he was suffering on his way out there was something available to ease that.

If he was to live for the next 40 years in his current condition will the strain on the family be supported by everyone once the headline fades away from the front page? Who's decision will it be after he turns 18?

 

Of course they should take whatever measure to insure humane death (are we at the vet?? ) 

Again I would say that has to be his families decision mate and they should receive any and all support financial and other wise that they need (seeing as UK Ltd seems to be into supporting every other c**t and nutty cause not matter what the expense!)

 

[Shovel shy 4,033]

Absolutely gutted for the little man and his family.

[jiggy 3,209]

4 hours ago, WILF said:

For me, the point is, only two people have that right to decide and that’s the parents.

No court or doctor should be allowed to order you to kill your kid........I don’t care what anyone says, that’s just fundamentally wrong.

I think you should take a step back on these threads wilf too be fair. This thread is similar to the abortion thread. I'll give you an example why. My first son suffered from fatal foetal abnormality. At the 20 week scan which should of been a detailed scan and because there was 120 women on the public ward things were rushed and things were missed and a quick scan was given with no abnormality and we were sent home. The 24 week scan showed a problem and we were sent to Dublin for a 2nd opinion. The top professor in Ireland Dr Fergus Malone ( google him)was sent down to tell us that our child had no fluid in the womb and his lungs and kidneys had not developed more than a 12 week foetus because of this. Fluid is important to breath in and out for the expansion of lungs and kidneys to promote growth. He had a one in a thousand chance of survival and if he did was a straight away candidate for lung and kidney transplant and a lifetime of struggle which you can't get transplant until 2 years old. We didn't have the option of abortion in Ireland which in his opinion was bullshit in this situation but nurses told us if we wanted to go to Liverpool and then we were entitled to get a fatal injection over there. We would then have to return to an Irish hospital and present ourselves as a child that had no heartbeat and then if the child is deceased then you would be given an abortion here. When the post mortem is done here if there is one , then most medical practitioners turn a blind eye to the needle mark in the child's heart because they think it's a joke that people go through that ordeal. We didn't take that option after ( and I don't begrudge anybody who did) Instead we went full term and the child ,our child was born alive and lived for 20 minutes. The nurse asked me did I want to cut the umbilical cord and I asked her what would happen if I did. She told me the umbilical cord was keeping his blood supply alive and when it was cut he would die. I told her no thanks she could do it.  He died in my arms and I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy.We had full funeral , grave, headstone the lot.   It wasn't nice  but that was our path but in no way shape or form would I dictate to another couple what their decision with their child would be. Unless you have directly been in this position wilf then I don't think you should have an opinion on what other people do unless you are a professional in this line of work. I'm glad I had that 20 minutes with him but that was our choice. It could be too hard for others.

[Daniel cain 45,454]

21 minutes ago, jiggy said:

I think you should take a step back on these threads wilf too be fair. This thread is similar to the abortion thread. I'll give you an example why. My first son suffered from fatal foetal abnormality. At the 20 week scan which should of been a detailed scan and because there was 120 women on the public ward things were rushed and things were missed and a quick scan was given with no abnormality and we were sent home. The 24 week scan showed a problem and we were sent to Dublin for a 2nd opinion. The top professor in Ireland Dr Fergus Malone ( google him)was sent down to tell us that our child had no fluid in the womb and his lungs and kidneys had not developed more than a 12 week foetus because of this. Fluid is important to breath in and out for the expansion of lungs and kidneys to promote growth. He had a one in a thousand chance of survival and if he did was a straight away candidate for lung and kidney transplant and a lifetime of struggle which you can't get transplant until 2 years old. We didn't have the option of abortion in Ireland which in his opinion was bullshit in this situation but nurses told us if we wanted to go to Liverpool and then we were entitled to get a fatal injection over there. We would then have to return to an Irish hospital and present ourselves as a child that had no heartbeat and then if the child is deceased then you would be given an abortion here. When the post mortem is done here if there is one , then most medical practitioners turn a blind eye to the needle mark in the child's heart because they think it's a joke that people go through that ordeal. We didn't take that option after ( and I don't begrudge anybody who did) Instead we went full term and the child ,our child was born alive and lived for 20 minutes. The nurse asked me did I want to cut the umbilical cord and I asked her what would happen if I did. She told me the umbilical cord was keeping his blood supply alive and when it was cut he would die. I told her no thanks she could do it.  He died in my arms and I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy.We had full funeral , grave, headstone the lot.   It wasn't nice  but that was our path but in no way shape or form would I dictate to another couple what their decision with their child would be. Unless you have directly been in this position wilf then I don't think you should have an opinion on what other people do unless you are a professional in this line of work. I'm glad I had that 20 minutes with him but that was our choice. It could be too hard for others.

That's rough fella... 

[Jonjon79 13,358]

That is bloody harsh Jiggy

 ....... As you said, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

Atb

[stumfelter 3,034]

1 hour ago, WILF said:

I’ll just add, anyone in the NHS seems to have some kind of hallowed status......well, it’s complete bollocks.

Theres as many shoddy 2 bob types working in the NHS as anywhere else.

So, they don’t know what’s wrong with him and they have got it totally wrong about him not being able to live without mechanical aid......I’m sorry, but if you are going to muller a private citizens little toddler it’s all got to be better than that imo 

Do you honestly believe that anyone involved in this childs care hasn't got his best interests at heart?

[Kay 3,709]

My thoughts at present  the hospital are saying it will take 3 to 5 days to move him home because they know the family will take him to Italy  once he is out of there care , he has been breathing on his own now for nearly 24 hours,  the other excuse is they think the staff will be attacked by the people outside 

Bollocks to that , if theirs a military  helicopter ready to move him then get on with it , letting him starve to death far more in humane than continuing with life support   

[ChrisJones 7,975]

They've lost their legal challenge to fly him to Italy.