The Russians

[Malt 379]

This attack was meant as a warning to the Russian population. Don't f**k with big daddy Putin or you won't be safe no matter where you end up. Tow the line or else.. 

[WILF 46,787]

13 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

. They work for us not the other way around. 

Now I know you can see further that mate......once upon a time maybe, but not at this present time.

The very reason you have a rise in populism is because they have taken the power of the ballot box away........and if the populist don’t deliver then you have to ponder, what do people have left then?

Thats the insanity I see in all of it.

[Francie 6,368]

Demorcracy doesnt work, one half rule while other half well you know the craic.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

9 minutes ago, WILF said:

Now I know you can see further that mate......once upon a time maybe, but not at this present time.

The very reason you have a rise in populism is because they have taken the power of the ballot box away........and if the populist don’t deliver then you have to ponder, what do people have left then?

Thats the insanity I see in all of it.

I know what's going on but it's what's supposed to be going on. Populism has just shown me that democracy is alive and well providing the people participate. Regardless we get the government we deserve. This isn't a just turn up every few years and tick a box this is a situation where we the people are the CCTV system that constantly monitors these representatives that work for us and handle our money. We just don't.

Any employee that's so inclined will do just enough not to get sacked. They'll dip in the till. They'll fiddle expenses. All the time people running the show should be auditing their performance. That's us.

Just because we do a sh*t job of it doesn't make it any less of our responsibility, or our fault for that matter. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

3 minutes ago, Francie said:

Demorcracy doesnt work, one half rule while other half well you know the craic.

What should we replace it with?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

3 minutes ago, baker boy said:

We should start with removing voting rights from some of the people who can vote

How does removing the democratic process improve the democratic process?

I get what you're saying but more people should be engaging, not less.

[WILF 46,787]

51 minutes ago, baker boy said:

It doesnt, we need to move on from the sham of democratic process or at least have a different version, theres too many people voting who havent got a clue what they are voting for, red, blue, yellow, I'll vote what my dad voted for, "oooh a woman she'll know whats good for us", "aaw that Tony has a nice smile and he's so sincere"...etc etc etc, you cant run a country on smoke and mirrors, we need a different method of running the country and a new method of choosing who we trust to do it

My idea is that MPs are taken from a pool of randomly selected members of the public a bit like jury service.

People can then vote for those randomly selected.

They have a fixed term of 5 years or maybe the option of being selected again if they have done a mega job or another random selection.

We should do away with party politics altogether......it plainly ain’t working.

 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

1 hour ago, baker boy said:

It doesnt, we need to move on from the sham of democratic process or at least have a different version, theres too many people voting who havent got a clue what they are voting for, red, blue, yellow, I'll vote what my dad voted for, "oooh a woman she'll know whats good for us", "aaw that Tony has a nice smile and he's so sincere"...etc etc etc, you cant run a country on smoke and mirrors, we need a different method of running the country and a new method of choosing who we trust to do it

I think the method is fine and I do think we're in agreement that the problem comes down to who engages, or rather who doesn't. It is the quality of information about the process, and the lack of participation from the people and the lack of accountability/quality of the people who get in. The first part is proportionate to the second. As the quality of information and lack of participation decreases so does the quality of the public sector.

There will be no revolution because no one can be arsed.

59 minutes ago, WILF said:

People can then vote for those randomly selected.

That's the crux of it. The people. The people haven't had an event in their lives that's brought home to them just how fragile a first world democracy can be. They didn't have a Hitler or a Stalin on their doorstep forcing their hand. The people don't give a shit. The people would rather spend their time on social media playing the latest time waster.

The system would be fine but no matter who you choose as your public official you actually need an informed citizenry to go out and vote for them. That's the problem. That will take at least a generation to fix.

Edited March 11, 2018 by ChrisJones
Clarity

[dave88 1,565]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-5490479/The-Latest-Kremlin-denies-involvement-spy-poisoning.html

Do you think they'll actually try and "punish" Russia or is May just flapping her lips again?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

3 minutes ago, dave88 said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-5490479/The-Latest-Kremlin-denies-involvement-spy-poisoning.html

Do you think they'll actually try and "punish" Russia or is May just flapping her lips again?

Bit of both. Sanctions and soundbites mostly.

[kanny 20,543]

Talking to a polish lad at work and as anybody knows the pols have no love for the Russians but his opinion was he'd be very surprised if was actually Russia behind this he seems to think it could more likely Ukraine stirring. ..he also said if it was the Russians then they'd be dead not in hospital. 

[Malt 379]

1 hour ago, kanny said:

Talking to a polish lad at work and as anybody knows the pols have no love for the Russians but his opinion was he'd be very surprised if was actually Russia behind this he seems to think it could more likely Ukraine stirring. ..he also said if it was the Russians then they'd be dead not in hospital. 

That's exactly the thinking the Russians want everybody to have about them mate and everybody laps it up including their own people.. 

[Kerny92 1,246]

1 hour ago, kanny said:

Talking to a polish lad at work and as anybody knows the pols have no love for the Russians but his opinion was he'd be very surprised if was actually Russia behind this he seems to think it could more likely Ukraine stirring. ..he also said if it was the Russians then they'd be dead not in hospital. 

Many Polish believe Putin was responsible for the death of their President back in 2010.

[scothunter 12,609]

Yea he was invited to tea with the Russians and low and behold he became gravely ill.

I also remember the sub that sank and they refused the American and British offer to help they had the equipment to save the submariner's. They let those guys die.  During a press conference a mother was condemning them for refusing the offer to help. 

Some KGB guy stepped behind her and stuck a syringe in her neck. Said it was a sedative cause she was hysterical. 

 

[Blackbriar 8,569]

Only the US, UK, France and Russia are believed to have the capability to make these kind of toxic agents. Assuming that WE didn't do it, and that it's probably reasonable to discount the Americas and the French................was are left with one suspect.

If the Russians weren't responsible, as they claim, they either have rogue agents, acting outside Kremlin control.........or they 'lost' an amount of a highly toxic nerve agent.........or they willingly proliferated that agent to another state.

I don't know which is the most alarming !

Now, maybe this ex-spy isn't as "ex" as we are being told, but why carry out the attack in Britain ? There are dozens of former Soviet agents living in countries all over the world, so why not take one of them out in America, or France, or Germany ? Because this country is almost guaranteed to be unwilling or unable to retaliate in any meaningful manner...............Trump, for instance, would see it as an act of war - but can you see, say, Israel letting this pass unanswered ?