kanny 20,914 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: Well, they're not going to release it anyway... thats that then 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, WILF said: For “negotiate the best possible outcome for the British people” see “negotiate the best possible outcome for my chums at Goldman Sacks who pay for my holidays” You are debating absolute nonsense lads ;).......as I have said, it really shouldn’t matter......that’s THE most important part of the whole process for everyone in the world never mind Britain. Your democracy has been turned into a joke.....f**k sake, don’t help them do it even more. Just getting an “out out” with no bullshit should matter to every advocate of freedom everywhere no matter what your stance on Brexit or political allegiance New trade deals will be made with other countries, everyone was very clear about that during the referendum and in fact was one of main benefits spoken about! The EU is a massive trading bloc right on our doorstep with already established ties, of course the government will be looking to make a deal with them as soon as possible. Negotiating what the trading relationship will look like after Brexit is not subverting democracy, the people voted to leave the EU and entrusted their representatives in Parliament to carry that out, that's what they're doing. Just because you personally want to see the hardest Brexit possible doesn't mean that's the only democratic option, not everyone wants that as shown by the result of the General Election just after the referendum. Edited January 30, 2018 by BGD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,967 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 I truly value and respect the lads on this threads opinions and replies.......but I honestly can’t beleive you are debating something deliberately put out there to turn your minds away from the real point. you are all much brighter and much better than that lads Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,967 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, BGD said: New trade deals will be made with other countries, everyone was very clear about that during the referendum and in fact was one of main benefits spoken about! The EU is a massive trading bloc right on our doorstep with already established ties, of course the government will be looking to make a deal with them as soon as possible. Negotiating what the trading relationship will look like after Brexit is not subverting democracy, the people voted to leave the EU and entrusted their representatives in Parliament to carry that out, that's what they're doing. Just because you personally want to see the hardest Brexit possible doesn't mean that's the only democratic option, not everyone wants that as shown by the result of the General Election just after the referendum. Implementing the vote should take presidency, talking shit should come after. Come in Mate, you are a clever bloke and one who always gives a valuable reply so I know you ain’t blind and you ain’t stupid......we all know what this is Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, WILF said: I truly value and respect the lads on this threads opinions and replies.......but I honestly can’t beleive you are debating something deliberately put out there to turn your minds away from the real point. you are all much brighter and much better than that lads C'mon mate! It's a slow news day and everyone is hunkering down waiting for Donnie's first state of the union address! Nothing wrong with seeing what some people think about some event that may or may not happen. That's what the internet was invented for! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, WILF said: Implementing the vote should take presidency, talking shit should come after. Come in Mate, you are a clever bloke and one who always gives a valuable reply so I know you ain’t blind and you ain’t stupid......we all know what this is Article 50 has been triggered and a date set when the UK will leave the EU, the vote has been implemented and now negotiations on the future relationship are taking place. When they start seriously moving towards staying in the Single Market and Customs Union or ever longer transition periods (which admittedly they're close to) I think it would be fair to start talk about subverting democracy but treating any kind of negotiation with the EU as going against the will of the people and the death of democracy is a bit alarmist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,914 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, BGD said: Article 50 has been triggered and a date set when the UK will leave the EU, the vote has been implemented and now negotiations on the future relationship are taking place. When they start seriously moving towards staying in the Single Market and Customs Union or ever longer transition periods (which admittedly they're close to) I think it would be fair to start talk about subverting democracy but treating any kind of negotiation with the EU as going against the will of the people and the death of democracy is a bit alarmist. The EU tbf have been fairly clear on cherry picking so it should be real simple we are out out that was the democratic vote after all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,914 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, BGD said: Article 50 has been triggered and a date set when the UK will leave the EU, the vote has been implemented and now negotiations on the future relationship are taking place. When they start seriously moving towards staying in the Single Market and Customs Union or ever longer transition periods (which admittedly they're close to) I think it would be fair to start talk about subverting democracy but treating any kind of negotiation with the EU as going against the will of the people and the death of democracy is a bit alarmist. A genuine question for you bgd maybe the million dollar question ...do you think the torys are willing to fall on there own sword in order to push a soft brexit because that's what they will be doing if we keep in the single market the ECJ or the CU because freedom of movement would have to tied in also and that just isn't going to wash with there electorate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, kanny said: The EU tbf have been fairly clear on cherry picking so it should be real simple we are out out that was the democratic vote after all No, the democratic vote was to leave the EU, there was nothing about binding the government to walking away with no deal, in fact all aspects of the Leave campaign were geared towards how great the deal made will be... As long as the UK leaves the EU (and I'd include the Single Market and Customs Union in that because they're lumped in with "the EU" in most folks understanding IMO) the result of the referendum has been upheld. 20 minutes ago, kanny said: A genuine question for you bgd maybe the million dollar question ...do you think the torys are willing to fall on there own sword in order to push a soft brexit because that's what they will be doing if we keep in the single market the ECJ or the CU because freedom of movement would have to tied in also and that just isn't going to wash with there electorate I don't think even they have decided if they're willing to do that or not yet hence all of infighting and jokeying for power. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,914 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, BGD said: No, the democratic vote was to leave the EU, there was nothing about binding the government to walking away with no deal, in fact all aspects of the Leave campaign were geared towards how great the deal made will be... As long as the UK leaves the EU (and I'd include the Single Market and Customs Union in that because they're lumped in with "the EU" in most folks understanding IMO) the result of the referendum has been upheld. I don't think even they have decided if they're willing to do that or not yet hence all of infighting and jokeying for power. Its a tricky one aint it ...governments dont just give up power at any cost in my experience.... its one of the few things that still gives me hope that they will do the right thing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, kanny said: Its a tricky one aint it ...governments dont just give up power at any cost in my experience.... its one of the few things that still gives me hope that they will do the right thing They're in a tricky spot because their natural allies in big business are of course generally more in favour of Remain/Soft Brexit, their voter base and membership are mostly in favour of Hard & Fast (Oo err ) Brexit and their MPs are pretty split down the middle. It's what makes predicting what direction they'll eventually go in so difficult. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,914 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, BGD said: They're in a tricky spot because their natural allies in big business are of course generally more in favour of Remain/Soft Brexit, their voter base and membership are mostly in favour of Hard & Fast (Oo err ) Brexit and their MPs are pretty split down the middle. It's what makes predicting what direction they'll eventually go in so difficult. Surely they can't string it out till 2022 can they Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, kanny said: Surely they can't string it out till 2022 can they There's enough "Hard Brexit" MPs to force a leadership challenge if May keeps dithering and dragging her feet IMO. Whether that will actually leave us in a better position is anyone's guess. Edited January 30, 2018 by BGD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 20,914 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, BGD said: There's enough "Hard Brexit" MPs to force a leadership challenge if May keeps dithering and dragging her feet IMO. Whether that will actually leave us in a better position is anyone's guess. I can see Hammond getting the push shortly he's weakening her significantly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Something else to keep in mind is that if the Blairites were still controlling the Labour party the Remain/Soft Brexit Tory MPs would be a lot more likely to collapse the government to force a soft as possible Brexit/no Brexit at all because the alternative would a Labour party they broadly agreed with rather than the scary Marxist Maomentum controlled party we have today Thanks God for Corbyn eh Edited January 30, 2018 by BGD 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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