ChrisJones 7,975 Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 07/12/2017 at 19:40, kanny said: What channel is that on ? The English channel! lol .....we have been sold a illusion of democracy but the veneer is peeling people are seeing what's underneath the illusion and it stinks ....I really don't know how to fix it but I do know putting more faith in the existing establishment isn't going to work Expand I agree that supporting the status quo isn't going to change anything. Curing apathy is the first step... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,837 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 07/12/2017 at 19:42, ChrisJones said: I agree that supporting the status quo isn't going to change anything. Curing apathy is the first step... Expand Being honest I don't mind apathy, I mind when apathy turns up at the ballot. Folks that don't have an interest in politics are right to stay out of it. Folks that barely have any interest but still vote are dangerous, they're easily manipulated and bias democracy towards ignorance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 07/12/2017 at 19:58, Born Hunter said: Being honest I don't mind apathy, I mind when apathy turns up at the ballot. Folks that don't have an interest in politics are right to stay out of it. Folks that barely have any interest but still vote are dangerous, they're easily manipulated and bias democracy towards ignorance. Expand They are all good for the status quo. The machine has been built around it. You're absolutely right though, you only have to look at some of the shite doing the rounds to see how a polished narrative is more important than factual content. I don't think there is a cure for apathy though! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 21,100 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 07/12/2017 at 19:58, Born Hunter said: Being honest I don't mind apathy, I mind when apathy turns up at the ballot. Folks that don't have an interest in politics are right to stay out of it. Folks that barely have any interest but still vote are dangerous, they're easily manipulated and bias democracy towards ignorance. Expand I think a number of votes in total would be a much better system than the seats won system we have now ...it would give smaller parties a fighting chance to gain seats that would be one of the first things I'd change . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,837 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) On 07/12/2017 at 20:08, kanny said: I think a number of votes in total would be a much better system than the seats won system we have now ...it would give smaller parties a fighting chance to gain seats that would be one of the first things I'd change . Expand I think one BIG reason for the apathy and frankly disillusion we see from the electorate currently is down the the perpetual two party system. It's unbreakable by its nature. Within such a system, other than in quite unique instances, the only way to get change is from within one of the two parties. Competing with them is useless other than as a pressure group. I've played with the thought of binning the Lords and replacing it with some sort of house of representatives, which would be designed not to represent constituencies but each party proportionally, determined by a separate election. Not sure on the technicalities but I like the idea. Edited December 7, 2017 by Born Hunter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 21,100 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 From the 2015 election in% I just don't see why the seats can't be shared out according to the % of votes each party gets it would be more representative of what the people actually want ...like you say how many don't even vote because its a pointless two horse race it's totally flawed CON 36.9 LAB 30.4 UKIP 12.6 LD 7.9 SNP 4.7 GRN 3.8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,975 Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 07/12/2017 at 20:19, Born Hunter said: I think one BIG reason for the apathy and frankly disillusion we see from the electorate currently is down the the perpetual two party system. It's unbreakable by its nature. Within such a system, other than in quite unique instances, the only way to get change is from within one of the two parties. Competing with them is useless other than as a pressure group. I've played with the thought of binning the Lords and replacing it with some sort of house of representatives, which would be designed not to represent constituencies but each party proportionally, determined by a separate election. Not sure on the technicalities but I like the idea. Expand Isn't that product of the lack of f*cks given by the electorate, though? It's kind of a chicken and egg situation whereby one has created the other? The only way I could see a two-party system working is if there was enough local pressure from the electorate making their MP's actually work for a living. That level of activity could see the system reform in favour of the voters. Over here there has been a political awakening that is refreshing to see despite some of the offerings it's brought us. On 07/12/2017 at 20:30, kanny said: From the 2015 election in% I just don't see why the seats can't be shared out according to the % of votes each party gets it would be more representative of what the people actually want ...like you say how many don't even vote because its a pointless two horse race it's totally flawed CON 36.9 LAB 30.4 UKIP 12.6 LD 7.9 SNP 4.7 GRN 3.8 Expand Would that be enough to get people out to vote though? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 21,100 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 07/12/2017 at 20:33, ChrisJones said: Isn't that product of the lack of f*cks given by the electorate, though? It's kind of a chicken and egg situation whereby one has created the other? The only way I could see a two-party system working is if there was enough local pressure from the electorate making their MP's actually work for a living. That level of activity could see the system reform in favour of the voters. Over here there has been a political awakening that is refreshing to see despite some of the offerings it's brought us. Would that be enough to get people out to vote though? Expand I think it would be a start also it would reduce the pointless vote fear...... people voting for one of the two because they know there preferable vote wouldent stand a chanc in the current system 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,985 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 in all truth, if a war broke out id not fight until all the mps against us in Westminster was publically executed, why would I put my life on the line to defend those who wish us harm in our own homes, GB is being ruined from within by the likes of the labour party etc. how much longer can it go on before the queen sacks the lot 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 48,281 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 So May has surrendered and called it a victory !! Brilliant........that folks, is how they f****d You out of Brexit! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neobliviscaris1776 1,998 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 08/12/2017 at 08:36, WILF said: So May has surrendered and called it a victory !! Brilliant........that folks, is how they f****d You out of Brexit! Expand That's it. Stay and we hit you with regular bills. Leave and we hit you harder. Scum 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jukel123 9,046 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) Well I've heard staments from everybody this morning except the british government. It's demonstrative of the contempt they have for the electorate. I'm told by the Irish government there will be no hard border and we can now proceed to trade talks with the EU. Thanks for keeping us in the loop messrs Davis and May. What breathtaking contempt and arrogance they display. Edited December 8, 2017 by jukel123 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 48,281 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) A prime example of why I have less than zero faith in any politician ! Folk ask “what do we do if the system is destroyed?”.......I ask “what do we do if it isn’t ?” Edited December 8, 2017 by WILF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 08/12/2017 at 08:36, WILF said: So May has surrendered and called it a victory !! Brilliant........that folks, is how they f****d You out of Brexit! Expand She's just as spineless as Cameron. He used to go to the EU "to get a better deal", they used to tel him to f**k off and he came back saying what a good deal he had got. I really don't understand why we have to concede anything at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 48,281 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 08/12/2017 at 10:03, walshie said: She's just as spineless as Cameron. He used to go to the EU "to get a better deal", they used to tel him to f**k off and he came back saying what a good deal he had got. I really don't understand why we have to concede anything at all. Expand Mate, I hear ya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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