Catalonia

[WILF 46,646]

The Catalans want to join the EU

The Catalans want to join the EU

Didn't know that mate, what happens to the rest of Spain while they try and do that and how can the EU keep Spain happy if that ever entertained such an idea I wonder?

 

They certainly won't walk right in and that's a LOT of lost tax revenue to Spain & the EU while they wait I reckon pal.

[delswal 3,819]

Not sure if you can see this video but you should, it's fuucked up!

 

https://m.(!64.56:886/story.php?story_fbid=10154644322771741&id=650761740

Only thing missing from that video is the swastika on the uniforms.............cnuts

[Lenmcharristar 9,731]

seen on the news on a building they had a big rapefugees welcome sign hanging up, sounds more like the antifa head quarters, fs level the lot

[mushroom 12,878]

It's pretty bad mate, don't really have a view, in the sense that if the Scottish independence tried to separate from UK then it's all's fair in love and war, if Catalonia ref equivalent was attempted in China they'd all be executed. We've arrived at where we are through war and bloodshed, do we give up our countries and become provinces of Europe? If Catalonia gained independence, should a neighboring country be allowed to invade, who protects the population once they form an insignificant indipendance

That's the problem. You've heard me mention the Mossos before mate. They're almost a paramilitary force. If Catalans declare independence and Spain reacts badly, they're the front line... and bang.... you have a war!

[THE STIFFMEISTER 15,734]

Do you seriously think that a paramilitary police force would hold against the NATO force that would land in Catalonia

 

Could do with a peacekeeping tour, Christmas is coming and all that

[mushroom 12,878]

Do you seriously think that a paramilitary police force would hold against the NATO force that would land in Catalonia

 

Could do with a peacekeeping tour, Christmas is coming and all that

Nope!

 

But that's where it will start

[Born Hunter 17,751]

A lot of people would have to die and Spain would have to act totally irresponsibly before the international community were willing to step in surely.

 

I'd hope NATO would be upholding democracy not aiding in oppressing it.

[tandors 888]

I don't get the logic of wanting independence from Spain but wanting to be a part of the eu.

[mushroom 12,878]

I don't get the logic of wanting independence from Spain but wanting to be a part of the eu.

Me neither.. It's the same with the Scottish independents. Seems strange to gain sovereignty and then give it away again

[Born Hunter 17,751]

 

A lot of people would have to die and Spain would have to act totally irresponsibly before the international community were willing to step in surely.

 

I'd hope NATO would be upholding democracy not aiding in oppressing it.

Should London be allowed to hold a referendum to leave the UK?

 

 

If they wish yes. In accordance with proper practice.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

 

 

 

A lot of people would have to die and Spain would have to act totally irresponsibly before the international community were willing to step in surely.

 

I'd hope NATO would be upholding democracy not aiding in oppressing it.

Should London be allowed to hold a referendum to leave the UK?

If they wish yes. In accordance with proper practice.

I think you're as mad as a box of frogs, uk would be finished. At the end of the day if another country negatively effects your economy, you can go to war, your hardly going to allow it within your own borders?? And EU won't do anything as they've all got little leftovers from empire days

 

 

LOL, UK would not be finished ffs. You can go to war just for a jolly if you want, doesn't make it a principled reason or legal under international law.

 

There's a generally accepted international principle that a people have a right to self determination. That's a product of democracy, you can't pick and choose! You either want democracy or you want tyranny, pick one.

 

The right for a people to secede doesn't mean every nation will fracture to pieces. That's a myth spread by tyrants! "Better not let the masses have freewill, it's not in their best interest"

Edited October 5, 2017 by Born Hunter

[Deadeye18 164]

 

A lot of people would have to die and Spain would have to act totally irresponsibly before the international community were willing to step in surely.

 

I'd hope NATO would be upholding democracy not aiding in oppressing it.

Should London be allowed to hold a referendum to leave the UK?

Yes,it's a shithole.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

Is the banking sector not the biggest factor in our economy? Including off shore which is governed by London, shouldn't the vote include all members of the country? So shouldn't Spain be able to vote in the Catalonia ref?

 

 

I'm not going to seriously discuss the likelihood and implications of London seceding. This isn't the place. LOL

 

No, the rest of the country shouldn't get a say whether a region within that country get to separate. That is NOT following the 'right to self determination'. It's completely the opposite, it's oppression.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

Okay well where do you draw the line, should a village be able to self determinate ? I guess none of it matters if they can't defend themselves from a hostile nation or threat. Independence would matter not if security was lost.

 

A nation stays stable when all the constituents feel that the security provided through union outweighs the loss of sovereignty. Security isn't just protection from invasion or attack, it's protection from natural disaster, protection from the collapse of the Rule of Law, protection from economic collapse, protection from falling behind in a technologically progressing world. Pooling resources for prosperity and security is the foundation of community. It's the government's job to maintain a fair and therefore mutually beneficial Union to avoid collapse.

 

Discontent comes when a constituent feels that the benefits of union are no longer beneficial and should have the right to secede in a democratic and civilised way. If you leave the only option that of armed rebellion then you'll get it and deserve it.

 

So allowing the people freewill isn't some terrible thing that will lead to destruction. Not if the Union remains fair and the people are the jury on that matter.

 

Where do I draw the line?.... In principle at the individual. If you as an individual want to secede from the UK then you should be allowed. Terrifying thought right? "Give folks that freedom and the world will descend into anarchy!" LOL. Some folks would choose to totally isolate themselves and become insignificant but the majority see the value in union, as we have for millions of years! As I've previously pointed out the benefits of remaining in the union and the resultant isolation of seceding massively deter that. I'd certainly not draw the line beyond that of several million people of a independent ethnic group!

 

At the very least, follow the international principle we have now of giving groups of people a voice and a path to independence in accordance with democracy if they want it. Provide them increasing degrees of autonomy. If a region can govern through a regional government then they should be taken seriously on full independence.

[dave88 1,565]

 

 

Okay well where do you draw the line, should a village be able to self determinate ? I guess none of it matters if they can't defend themselves from a hostile nation or threat. Independence would matter not if security was lost.

A nation stays stable when all the constituents feel that the security provided through union outweighs the loss of sovereignty. Security isn't just protection from invasion or attack, it's protection from natural disaster, protection from the collapse of the Rule of Law, protection from economic collapse, protection from falling behind in a technologically progressing world. Pooling resources for prosperity and security is the foundation of community. It's the government's job to maintain a fair and therefore mutually beneficial Union to avoid collapse.

 

Discontent comes when a constituent feels that the benefits of union are no longer beneficial and should have the right to secede in a democratic and civilised way. If you leave the only option that of armed rebellion then you'll get it and deserve it.

 

So allowing the people freewill isn't some terrible thing that will lead to destruction. Not if the Union remains fair and the people are the jury on that matter.

 

Where do I draw the line?.... In principle at the individual. If you as an individual want to secede from the UK then you should be allowed. Terrifying thought right? "Give folks that freedom and the world will descend into anarchy!" LOL. Some folks would choose to totally isolate themselves and become insignificant but the majority see the value in union, as we have for millions of years! As I've previously pointed out the benefits of remaining in the union and the resultant isolation of seceding massively deter that. I'd certainly not draw the line beyond that of several million people of a independent ethnic group!

 

At the very least, follow the international principle we have now of giving groups of people a voice and a path to independence in accordance with democracy if they want it. Provide them increasing degrees of autonomy. If a region can govern through a regional government then they should be taken seriously on full independence.

I always take the time to read your answers on most threads and 95% of the time i haven't got a f***ing clue what you're talking haha...all i have to ask is where the hell did you go to school ffs...in the shit schools round my way i was still learning my abc's at age 15 lol...is it hard to find a hat to fit your head cos your brain must be huge haha...you just seem to know alot about everything...i take my hat of to you sir (cos i have one that does fit)...you sound like a very educated fella