silver to silver

[andy s410c 61]

Hi Mick,go to page 7 on this forum theres a bit of a discussion about fert colours it gets a BIT tense for Stubby as Kay got involved!!! Hope this helps

 

 

so your saying, when someone ask's for advice, we should just keep quite

Not at all Stubby i found it informative but i also saw the humour in the postings i would pass any knowledge/experience i have to anyone on the same foot if i would like to find out something i would have no hesitation to ask.If it came across that way i apologise.... Andy

[Kay 3,709]

Hi Mick,go to page 7 on this forum theres a bit of a discussion about fert colours it gets a BIT tense for Stubby as Kay got involved!!! Hope this helps

 

 

so your saying, when someone ask's for advice, we should just keep quite

Not at all Stubby i found it informative but i also saw the humour in the postings i would pass any knowledge/experience i have to anyone on the same foot if i would like to find out something i would have no hesitation to ask.If it came across that way i apologise.... Andy

 

Isnt the ferrets section all humour

[Crow 1]

Some people have the same view that always breeding silver to silver will produce deformed kits just as brother to sister does - simply not true I'm afraid (although it could happen - and for more than one reason).

 

I have often bred silver to silver and have never bred a kit that was deformed, deaf or in any way inferior to other colourings. Maybe I'm just lucky?

 

Theres is a thing about panda masked type colouration (for want of a better description) but that doesn't apply to all silvers; it can apply to some polecat marked ferrets too!

 

Crow

[stubby 175]

after re reading ya post andy, realise you wer'nt having a pop, have MAN FLU at mo, and you know what that does to ya :sick:

[socks 32,253]

Some people have the same view that always breeding silver to silver will produce deformed kits just as brother to sister does - simply not true I'm afraid (although it could happen - and for more than one reason).

 

I have often bred silver to silver and have never bred a kit that was deformed, deaf or in any way inferior to other colourings. Maybe I'm just lucky?

 

Theres is a thing about panda masked type colouration (for want of a better description) but that doesn't apply to all silvers; it can apply to some polecat marked ferrets too!

 

Crow

 

well you have been VERY lucky then crow ............

[Crow 1]

Possibly, or maybe a little knowledge and plenty of common sense has helped me through?

 

It annoys me when people make such blanket statements as 'you should never breed silver to silver' because that leaves the uninitiated thinking 'why?'. Of course, it could be that the person making that statements doesn't really know why, they are just passing on advice they have been given.

 

In the case of breeding silver to silver there is a risk of Waardenburg Syndrome, however that doesn't mean all silver to silver matings! Waardenburg Syndrome can cause hearing defects and colouration characteristics. Affected animals will usually have a small white strip down the forehead; I had a jill that had this stripe (we named her 'Little Mo' short for Little Mohican!). They may also have a slightly flatter forehead, and of course deafness could be an indication. Apart from the white stripe she was perfectly healthy in every other way although I never bred from her.

 

I can recall no other defects that may result from Waardenburg Syndrome, and can find no other scientific evidence to suggest that breeding silvers to silvers will result in deformed kits. I suspect that the majority of deformed kits are a result of too-close inbreeding!

 

Another thing to consider is this: At the moment I have four black-eyed whites in my ferrety, which is strange because during summer one was a b.e.w. and three were silvers! One of those can go anything from b.e.w. to almost polecat as she moults. When is it safe to breed from her? If I breed when she’s a polecat she’ll be OK but not when she’s a silver right?

 

Such a blanket statement as ‘you should never breed silver to silver’ is as incorrect as stating you should never ferret without a locator or that all ferrets 100 years ago were fed on milk slop.

 

If you have silvers and you want to breed from them read up on the subject and use a bit of common sense first.

 

Crow

[Kay 3,709]

Crow thats interesting what you say about the silvers , its what i was trying to understand when stubby was on about genetics, i have never had a silver thats lost all its silver guard gairs personally but then been described as a BEW , but i know lots of folks who have had this happen.

 

The Waardenburg Syndrome i thought effected ferrets what i describe as mitts, the classic white blaze on there heads & the white dots on the insides of there legs , these ferrets come in all colours , so i agree its not a specific problem just effecting '' silver'' ferrets

 

Didnt Lez White do a piece in the CMW about 10 yrs ago about breeding silver to silver ?

[stubby 175]

good points put over there crow, the trouble is, a lot of ferret keepers wont take the trouble to look into matings or read up on the subject, and so someone says, it can be done, they take that on face value, breed silver to silver, maybe produce some that are deaf, but dont realise it, keep one or two and sell the rest on, putting more defective ferrets out there, which then get bred from unknowingly and it goes on and on,

I take my findings from years of breeding exhibition budgerigars "CLEARS" never pairing them together, but always going for the outcross mating, it meant I only ever got 50% of what I wanted, but I knew it would be healthy

that Is why Its easier to say to someone asking the question to not pair silver to silver, if they take the advice, maybe because they want a healthy litter, they will then look into it further as they get more experience

as for your silver that turns BEW that turns polecat, its still a silver, I have a brother and sister silver that have the markings of a polecat, but in silver colour, no matter what they moult to, they will always be silver,

[mick s 0]

many thanks for everybodys advice, it has been constructive and very interesting, as we are new to breeding ferrets i decided to join this fourum after hearing it was not recomended to breed silver to silver and after reading that it would not be fair on the kits, which i took to mean deformitys etc i decided there and then not to do it, but after reading what Crow has to say, and my 2 silvers were bought 180 miles apart from each other, i am swinging back the other way, good stuff. many thanks mick.

[Crow 1]

Stubby, so what you are saying is that because some people may not be responsible enough then we stop those that are?

 

That’s a pretty dangerous ethos don’t you think?

 

Some people may not be responsible enough to own a handgun so let’s stop everyone from owning one! Or how about pitbulls – some may not be responsible enough to own one so let’s stop everyone from owning one! You see where we are going here?

 

Those that aren’t responsible wouldn’t even ask the question, they would breed and bugger the consequences. It’s the same with the handgun and pitbull bans – you only penalise the responsible people because the irresponsible take no notice anyway!

 

I feel it’s up to us that ‘have been around a bit’ to help those new to the sport, not put them off simply because it’s easier. Besides, in the long run we only create a generation of ferreters that have lost the knowledge that those before them have gained over many years and that in turn can only hurt the ferret as a working companion.

 

Waardenburg Syndrome is a consideration when breeding any ferret with panda type facial markings not just silvers, yet no-one considers it other than when the silver to silver breeding issue comes up.

 

People like Mick should be applauded for asking the question, and should be given an honest answer following which he can make up his own mind.

 

Hopefully he’s now reading up on Waardenburg Syndrome and checking his ferrets for a lighter mark down their forehead, checking there skull formation and testing their hearing. If we had simply said ‘don’t!’ then he’d probably get himself another ferret and still breed next year anyway, but he could still have got the same result!

 

Others may want to put people off with half-truths and misrepresentations but that’s something I will never do. I have learnt through experience and the knowledge that others have shared with me. When I pop my clogs I shall rest in peace knowing that I’ve done my bit and passed it on, not taken it to the grave with me simply because it was easier!

[socks 32,253]

crow none of my silvers had a white stripe or blue eyes or eyes set wide apart or a flat skull etc etc etc .... BUT when bred they did produce blind deaf weak and deformed offspring .........

[Crow 1]

Then you'll have to look at their breeding and ask yourself why these deformaties occured!

[higgins 75]

Is the gene for silver in ferrets similar to that of Merle's in collies?If so then it wouold be wiser to cross

to another ferret without this gene,

Higgins.

[stubby 175]

crow none of my silvers had a white stripe or blue eyes or eyes set wide apart or a flat skull etc etc etc .... BUT when bred they did produce blind deaf weak and deformed offspring .........

 

 

this is a point i was trying to make, the cost of dogs means that a breeding line can be followed back, but ferrets are chucked together willy nilly, sold on, exchanged, to a point where an owner has no idea what breeding they have, this argument can go on and on, I for one, will always give the advice not to pair silver to silver, as with ferrets its not so much the colour we are trying to breed, but a worker, crow, from his post's will always say do it, i think at the end of the day, owners can ask for advice, read both for and against points of view, and deside themselves

[Crow 1]

Absolutely Stubby, get to know your ferrets and their breeding

 

Crow