September 11Th

[Greyman 28,440]

For all the people who think a government would not do this to its own people or cal it a conspiracy theory, there is a cia document obtained under the freedom of information act that is doing the rounds, were they were planning on sabotaging one of there own space missions, so they could blame castro and start war with Cuba, roll forward 30 years and the same thing has happened with the twin towers 3,000 dead is a small amount of collateral damage for a government to achieve its aim, the average joe in the street though he may think he is important means absolutely nothing to a government in achieving there goals, a million Russians died in one day of ww2 for what ???

[ChrisJones 7,975]

..but some things I'll never get my head round. Namely wtc7. Let's just say wtc7 must of been a Friday afternoon skyscraper....haha. It should of still been standing, if only partially, that's why buildings like that get built by structural engineers & not fcukwits like me. We won't see it happen again ;-)

It was very badly damaged, mate. The southwest corner was demolished from the ground to the eighteenth floor taking several support columns and a diesel fire, from the backup generators, burned for several hours further weakening the remaining supports.

 

From NYPD..

 

 

The firefighters reported that the building began to 'bulge' between what was left of the 10th and 13th floors and they evacuated when the building began to sag.

 

From NIST...

 

 

The conspiracy says that there was a controlled explosion. There is no evidence at all to support that. Not a trace has been found. The conspiracy says that a diesel fire cannot melt steel. That is correct but it can weaken the steel significantly. When you combine a seven hour fire with the remaining structural failures you're left with a collapse.

 

 

 

Come on ChrisJones, put me out of my misery, why did WC7 collapse?

 

See above!

Edited September 12, 2017 by ChrisJones

[Accip74 7,112]

Yes I've seen & read those things before mate. I still remain a skeptic haha.....

[Born Hunter 17,763]

For all the people who think a government would not do this to its own people or cal it a conspiracy theory, there is a cia document obtained under the freedom of information act that is doing the rounds, were they were planning on sabotaging one of there own space missions, so they could blame castro and start war with Cuba, roll forward 30 years and the same thing has happened with the twin towers 3,000 dead is a small amount of collateral damage for a government to achieve its aim, the average joe in the street though he may think he is important means absolutely nothing to a government in achieving there goals, a million Russians died in one day of ww2 for what ???

 

I hadn't heard of that one but Op Northwoods is a commonly known one with the objective of achieving the same. It was eventually kiboshed by Kennedy himself which shows how far it got through the government!

 

I can't help but feel though that these things just don't remain a secret. If they were that concerned about such things to illegally cover their tracks then why didn't they with Northwoods? And let's not forget that these historical examples were tiny in scope in comparison to 911.

 

I think that people fall into one of too extremes with their attitude to government. They are either too trusting, completely oblivious to historical examples of deceit and tyranny, or they are conspiracy mad believing that the government are the ultimate strategists with every event a carefully executed part of their master plan. I personally believe neither, power has and does corrupt, government's frustration with the flaws of democracy has led to them manipulating the mob for what they perceive the greater good. But their is no government with the strategic brilliance capable of this deception. Politicians are opportunists not strategic genius's. Generally when they get something out of an event, it's because they were ready to take advantage, not because they caused it.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Yes I've seen & read those things before mate. I still remain a skeptic haha.....

 

No worries! Like I said I'll take industry experts over YouTube any day!

[Accip74 7,112]

 

Yes I've seen & read those things before mate. I still remain a skeptic haha.....

 

No worries! Like I said I'll take industry experts over YouTube any day!

Industry experts on both sides mate & plenty that dispute Nists official findings, that's why I keep an open mind, not through watching ten minutes of You Tube ;-)

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Industry experts on both sides mate & plenty that dispute Nists official findings, that's why I keep an open mind, not through watching ten minutes of You Tube ;-)

Agreed mate and eventually you reach the point where you can't sit on the fence. I still have an embarrassing manuscript as a reminder!

[Accip74 7,112]

 

Industry experts on both sides mate & plenty that dispute Nists official findings, that's why I keep an open mind, not through watching ten minutes of You Tube ;-)

 

Agreed mate and eventually you reach the point where you can't sit on the fence. I still have an embarrassing manuscript as a reminder!

You actually wrote something? Haha......You were out of my league mate, I'm just happy to shoot the breeze on here, while trying to feed my kids! Haha....

[ChrisJones 7,975]

You actually wrote something? Haha......You were out of my league mate,

 

Like I said I spent an unhealthy amount of time on it! It's about 40,000 words when I stopped. I started talking to structural engineers, architects, firemen, anyone that would have knowledge on the matter. The answers I got were so simple I was genuinely embarrassed. Bear in mind this was the early 00's... The internet was purely a tool for evil at that point. I mean we were all learning privileged information. Above top secret. Nowadays you realise that you're not awake. You're not privileged. You just have an internet connection!

 

I'm just happy to shoot the breeze on here, while trying to feed my kids! Haha....

I'm the same these days, it's more fun and less stressful! My kids pretty much feed themselves!

 

[Accip74 7,112]

Thats nowt im doing a couple a dramatic reconstructions out of stickle bricks an lego in the living room just too see if the experts are right or not

Already done it mate, that's why I'm such a sceptic.....haha

[CushtyJook 1,097]

 

The hole on the side of the Pentagon was tiny compared to the twin towers damage, plus have you seen the one camera they had on it? No sign of a plane? Just an explosion.

But what about all the plane fragments? Seats? Flight crews uniforms? The black box? Even the body parts? Surely we cannot disregard that evidence?

 

On the flip side of the coin where is the evidence for a missile?

I think it's important to still ask questions, especially when you're told something historically unique has happened.

Absolutely. I've never taken any new claim at face value and I've personally spent an unhealthy amount of time looking into these events. I was one of these nutjobs that poured over the tiniest of tiny details. Looking for signs of government meddling. Over the years the data stacked up and I was simply wrong! The conspiracy is either the most tightly controlled in history needing the payoff and silence of thousands of people.

 

Or it happened the way a metric f*ck ton of dedicated professionals say it did.

 

I spent weeks reading the reports from NIST when they were released and they thoroughly debunked many of the more popular claims. FEMA waded in. The firefighters too. In 16 years not a single bit of info has been leaked and with the internet, we get transcripts of what the president said to the bloke that cleans the windows. To keep all of these people quiet requires a monumental conspiracy but in true conspiracy theory style that is all the evidence required to support the conspiracy!

 

I believe a healthy amount of scepticism is a good thing but listening to myself, and others, over the years it's tantamount to the way creationism is spread as fact. The crazy hypothesis is welcome providing it disagrees with the accepted theory combined with the assumption that accepted theory is wrong. Like the hypothesis that it couldn't have been a plane crash so therefore it was a missile. Of course, this doesn't require a shred of evidence. Below "Well where is the CCTV footage?" as the rest of the evidence and everything else that points to a plane crash is conveniently ignored because of this new gold standard.

 

Ultimately there is no evidence sufficient enough to convince the sceptic, in this case, but if you believe that science holds the key you'll get to the truth eventually.

Loads of pictorial evedence of a plane but where the footage lol one of the most secure buildings in America and no cctv footage ????

Is that, and reports from first responders and hundreds of eye witnesses, not enough? If no what would be the gold standard to sway you?

Just as many reports of public saying the planes where not passenger and resembled cargo planes also

[CushtyJook 1,097]

So your telling me terrorists have gone from the well planned 911 attacks to driving vans into crowds lol give me a break

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Just as many reports of public saying the planes where not passenger and resembled cargo planes also

But what about all the actual evidence? Cockpit recordings? Forensics? The people that didn't go home? The photographs of the remains of a United Airlines plane on the roof of WTC 5? The engine and landing gear recovered from the ground?

 

So your telling me terrorists have gone from the well planned 911 attacks to driving vans into crowds lol give me a break

What's your version, then?

[dogmandont 9,821]

They went from flying planes into buildings to living and breeding amongst there sworn enemy (the uk) while the government payed them for the pleasure. They Seem pretty smart to me. They'll have turned the uk into the shite hole they want it to be in 20 are 30 years if not less, they're scumbags but they're not stupid scumbags.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

When it happened it was unprecedented. Something of that magnitude had never happened before. Every developed country changed their security policy as a result. To say that they went from flying planes into buildings to driving vans into crowds says much more about how the security forces deal with terror threats now they're paying attention to them. Trillions have been spent on modernising munitions as a result. To be blindsided is bad enough but to say that they orchestrated the conspiracy using that analogy is crackers...