Red Cell Suppliment

[stonewall 1,913]

On 07/09/2017 at 10:50, Who let the dogs out! said:

 

On 07/09/2017 at 10:48, stonewall said:

 

On 07/09/2017 at 10:32, Who let the dogs out! said:

 

On 07/09/2017 at 10:28, stonewall said:

 

On 07/09/2017 at 10:12, Who let the dogs out! said:

Sounds hi tech. What does this actually do to the blood and please don't say give it a boost

it bascially a blood tonic that has crude protiens, fibre, moisture, ash,, iron coppe,r folic acid, b6, cobalt, amino acid.you would give it to ur hound 2 to 3 days before a hard days hunting or lamping and it helps to drive the dog that has built up the required fitness to start with.

Can you physically see the difference energy/performance wise

yes.the dog comes out bouncing and full of it,its bascially a driver.tried it on my terriers never again unless they were very low.

Hahaha why, were the terriers wired from it

 

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Edited October 8, 2018 by stonewall

[Who let the dogs out! 223]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds hi tech. What does this actually do to the blood and please don't say give it a boost

it bascially a blood tonic that has crude protiens, fibre, moisture, ash,, iron coppe,r folic acid, b6, cobalt, amino acid.you would give it to ur hound 2 to 3 days before a hard days hunting or lamping and it helps to drive the dog that has built up the required fitness to start with.

Can you physically see the difference energy/performance wise

yes.the dog comes out bouncing and full of it,its bascially a driver.tried it on my terriers never again unless they were very low.

Hahaha why, were the terriers wired from it

you could say that,they have a lot of pit in them.

Yea bet they don't need overdrive.

[Dan McDonough 560]

 

That looks very much like one of mine...a real powerhouse.

are u the man that has the deerhound types that hunts the coyotes.

 

Dan Edwards hunts coyotes more than I do. He lives about 10 hours South of me in open country. I live on the edge of the great Northern forest so things are a little different hunting coyotes up here. We have plenty though. I prefer tree game and while I do hunt coyotes a fair amount, I run a lot of bobcat, coon and fox up here. I also run my dogs to birds and other stuff when the getting is good. I mix hounds, stags and lurchers most days.

[sandymere 8,263]

Sounds hi tech. What does this actually do to the blood and please don't say give it a boost

That's the sort of question i like. B vitamins and iron, in basic terms in this context have roles to play in energy production and production of red cells. If there is a deficit then there will be a performance effect but the question then should be why is there a deficit and should I adjust the diet to meet the shortfall?

More here

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamin-b12-the-energy-panacea/

 

[Who let the dogs out! 223]

 

 

Sounds hi tech. What does this actually do to the blood and please don't say give it a boost

That's the sort of question i like. B vitamins and iron, in basic terms in this context have roles to play in energy production and production of red cells. If there is a deficit then there will be a performance effect but the question then should be why is there a deficit and should I adjust the diet to meet the shortfall?

More here

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamin-b12-the-energy-panacea/

So are you saying if the diet was right then we wouldn't see an improvement from the booster as they would be high driven and performing better all the time. Does make sense. When I eat shit I feel like shit and when I eat a healthier diet my Mrs says I "perform" better Joking aside what is best included in a dogs diet for best performance, good old simple meat and veg, got to be. All natural.

[sandymere 8,263]

To a degree it will depend on what the dogs are doing but basically protein, fats and carbs. Meat and bones gives the 1st 2 along with lots of minerals etc. A carb source such as pasta or such like along with some vegetables/fruit should ensure the rest. In truth the sources are less important than the balance and digestibility.

[Who let the dogs out! 223]

To a degree it will depend on what the dogs are doing but basically protein, fats and carbs. Meat and bones gives the 1st 2 along with lots of minerals etc. A carb source such as pasta or such like along with some vegetables/fruit should ensure the rest. In truth the sources are less important than the balance and digestibility.

I always get a mixed response when it comes to carbs for dogs. Some saying that they run on fat as the primary fuel source and that carbs aren't necessary? What is your opinion

[sandymere 8,263]

Done this a few times so will quote myself et al if that's ok.

 

Dogs don't need carbs the same as humans don't need carbs your problem is you are asking the wrong question what you need to consider is not the need but are they likely to have a positive effect.

 

Dogs and humans use glucose for sprint energy and fats for steady energy, i.e. whilst resting around % of the energy used will come from fats and 20% from glucose whereas at full speed it will be the other way around. Carbs from cereals in the form of pasta, biscuits, bread or in a complete are a good source of glucose, (and well digested). Dogs can converts protein/fat into glucose if this is not supplied in the diet but it would seem to be slower at replacing stores after exercise. Meat will supply both protein and fat and completes should supply all three. So the same as with ourselves using a balanced diet containing protein, fats and carbs seems sensible.

 

Dr Arleigh Reynolds, DVM, PhD, DACVN, a veterinary nutritionist and 2013 North American Champion sprint dog musher

States

"Dogs involved in sprinting and weight pulling activities such as sight hound racing or sledge pulling competitions undergo short periods of very intense exercise. These types of dogs typically do not have higher energy requirements than those of moderately active pet dogs. A greyhound expends approximately 75 kcal per race6. The energy required for these types of activities is solely anaerobic and comes from the muscle energy stores. Most canine athletes engaged in sprint type activities have an energy requirement of 1.6-2 X resting energy rate1. An appropriate feeding regime for sprint type canine athletes consists of a diet that contains approximately 25% calories from protein, 30% calories from fat and 45% calories from carbohydrates.
Greyhounds can deplete up to 70% of their muscle glycogen during a race7. However, it seems that “carb loading” as described for humans does not benefit these canine athletes8. Hill et al demonstrated that greyhounds ran faster when carbohydrate was increased from 30 to 45% ME at the expense of protein but they ran slower when fed 54% carbohydrates at the expense of protein and fat."

From (http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/329165-raw-carbs/?hl=glucose&do=findComment&comment=3745192)

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Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a normal meal an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.
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The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

From (http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/295058-feedng/page-2 )

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It's pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a normal meal an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.
.
The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline Carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considering.

From (http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/316612-feeding-lurchers/?hl=glucose&do=findComment&comment=3574364 )

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by sandymere