Rspca And The Legal System

[dymented 2,220]

RSPCA and the Legal System
Process of a case
1) They may leave a card taped to you gate etc – this should be taken as a warning that someone has reported your animals and the RSPCA are watching you.
2) They may leave a card and an Improvement Notice – please note THIS IS NOT A LEGALLY ENFORCABLE DOCUMENT – the only people able to issue a legally enforcible improvement notice is DEFRA. However, the RSPCA will say that if you do not follow the advice given you may be liable to prosecution under the Animal Welfare Act (and how does that work exactly – you do not follow something that cannot be enforced in law but they can still prosecute!) Also note the RSPCA Inspectors have just 12 weeks training across all species – they are nor specialist animal carers nor do they have any veterinary training.
3) Either following the above, or bypassing the above, you find your animals missing and a removal notice issued by the RSPCA with a contact card. Note the Removal Notice issued should be by the POLICE not the RSPCA – again they are overstepping any legal authority.
The contact card will give the helpline number only – if you choose to contact them they will want all your details to get the Inspector named to call you back (at their convenience and could be several days). I would suggest you contact the helpline number and say just that you have the card but do not wish to speak with the Inspector or discuss matters, do not leave a phone number and if possible block your outgoing caller id. DONT make it easy for them.
If some animals were left behind – MOVE THEM as far as possible – the RSPCA will be back and will take the rest.
If you receive any of the above look up The SHG on the web (The Self Help Group) they have a good knowledge of this field and some helpful tips and advice on their website to get you started. they also have contact details of suitable solicitors etc.
Immediately contact the RSPCA website – and email for the attention of the Legal Department that you wish your vet to examine all your animals which have been seized by Inspector XXX as a matter of urgency and at their cost, tell them that if they fail to agree then you will have an Abuse of Process argument in court since you will not be able to refute any evidence they present by your own vets findings. I would also suggest that you state that no animals are to be treated without your permission – there are certain things they can do without applying to court but others (non routine) that they cannot and must apply to court to do and you must be given a chance to argue why it shouldnt happen. (If there are any drugs or chemicals etc – if you are organic farmer etc worming is an issue – techincally a routine process but all drugs are out of bounds for organic farmers and should they be used you will lose organic status I believe) State which drugs cannot be used on you animals. The email response will probably deny this to you but keep the reply as it will be evidence for your case that they have not given you the ability to defend yourself or your way of life.
The RSPCA have to use the Police to seize your animals – they have no power to do so even on a vets recommendation.
If the animals were kept on your private property then the Police require a warrant to seize the animals if you refuse or are not present at seizure – if they do not have one you will have a legal argument for Unlawful Seizure of your animals which will stand up in Court.
4) They will want to interview you in relation to the animals – my recommendation would be to REFUSE this – solicitors disagree saying you should issue a prepared statement (which they check), but at this stage you cannot apply for legal aid so they will charge you for this. The reason I say refuse is that they will not say what the charges against you are – they will say generally breach of animal welfare act 2006, but they wait for you replies to their questions before drafting the actual charges, you will also not think of all the other things you want to say to them. If you refuse interview they may try to have you arrested for the purpose – they will use the Police for this- you can then claim unlawful imprisonment and wrongful arrest since the Police will be having nothing to do with the case and will not be present at any interview.
If you do choose to be interviewed – make a no comment interview and have a solicitor present if you can.
At no stage sign over your animals to the RSPCA – you will never see them again if you do – old or infirm ones are put to sleep within days of not hours and others rehomed if possible.
It is amazing how much weaker their summonses become if they have nothing to work from!
The RSPCA will then spend several months getting their evidence together before choosing to prosecute – they will get vets, neighbours etc.
5) Spend you time looking out receipts for feed, vets etc that will support your case, dont throw anything away and think about witnesses to your conduct and any evidence of this – email correspondence, contracts, phone bills (evidence of contacting vets etc) Also write up your own account of the months leading up to and including the seizure date while it is fresh in your mind.
6) You are unlikely to be summonsed for nearly 6 months (the time limit they have)You only then see the exact charges they are bringing against you and the statements made by the opposition. Contact an Animal Welfare solicitor NOW, you can now apply for legal aid to help you with your case. Dont bother with your local solicitors – they really dont have sufficient depth of knowledge or contacts to go up against the heavy mob.
THIS IS IMPORTANT – ask whoever represents you to send a request to the CPS to ask that they take over the prosecution from the RSPCA – you have every right to request this but in all the years and with over 2000 prosecutions a year only 4 people have ever asked for this. Note the CPS standard of evidence and water tight case is much higher than the RSPCA’s private prosecutions despite what they claim about following the same rules – you may find that the CPS take over and stop the case depending on the evidence and your defence evidence. (I am currently lobbying my MP to request that if the Animal Welfare Act is to be enforced it should be enforced as all other Criminal Acts ie by the Police and the CPS – this is good enough for the Hunting Act and the Wildlife Act!)
Read and copy all the statements before handing them over to a solicitor. Reading them will be upsetting and make you angry – best to do it a few days later when you are less in shock.
7) 1st Hearing – this is a plea – YOU MUST PLEAD NOT GUILTY at this stage – if you plead guilty you will have little recourse in law in the future even if the evidence against you falls away in the future or is proved malicious. Do not believe them when they say you will get e lighter sentence – you wont Magistrates always believe the RSPCA are right and have an emotional response to the case.
Cool research you own case using the internet, magazine articles etc – if your animal had a particular disease etc research it and send details to your solicitor with contact details of vets working in this area – with the best will in the world he will not have time to do this – the more help you can give him the better. Note however, that not all vets will stand up against the RSPCA since they fear recriminations with letters of complaint to RCVS – which if why the RSPCA tend to use young inexperienced vets to support them, they think they can lean on them harder.
9) Magistrates Trial – this will be harrowing and could last 1 – 10 days (usually 2 – 3) and there will be liews – make sure you can let your solicitor know when the prosecution are lying and how to prove it – if they can lie under oath about one thing they can lie about everything.
RSPCA reportedly win 98% of these cases so dont be surprised if you dont win. If you are convicted – you MUST appeal to the higher court (Crown Court),. You only have 21 days to do this but I would suggest you do this immediately before you leave the court building since you will have the solicitor there to help you and it is done and you can stop worrying about the date. Appeal both conviction and sentence.
10) Appeal Trial – you have to go through the whole thing again, but you have a 55% chance of winning this – dont lose sight of that. Also your sentence may go down (or up of course but more likely down in my experience)
11) If you are still found guilty there is nowhere else to appeal in the UK courts since the Court of Appeal will not hear any case that started in Magistrates – a loophole I think the RSPCA uses very successfully!
However, you may have reason to appeal to the Court of Human Rights – look it up on the net and see if your case might be eligible – it is a long form which you must complete yourself with a summary of why it should be heard there. If they accept your case then you can apply for legal aid and get specialist help in the trial/case.
If your solicitor thinks that the Judge has misinterpretted the law in the crown appeal he can request that the Judge writes the reasons for his conclusions and conviction of you in what is called a Case Stated – again you have 21 days from the conviction date to do this.
If your solicitor still believes the Judge made a mistake you can then apply for a Judicial Review of the case – not sure on timings of this yet – havent got there myself yet! Your solicitor will know this.
These cases will have a significant impact on you and your family and work – make sure you see you doctor if it starts affecting you or anyone in your family – not eating, sleeping, depression, self harming, suicidal thoughts etc – our animals mean alot to most of us and losing them and our reputations can be hard to handle – this is a side to RSPCA cases which is never publicised but should be considered by Judges and Magistrates.
At the end of the day it is up to you how you choose to take you case through the system, but be sure you are prepared for a fight, and believe in you animals and yourself. Get friends and family around you that can help you in the dark days of which there will be many and remember you will always have friends hear who do know exactly what its like, some have been ill advised in the past and it is too late for them to change their own situations now but if you are at the start of the process you still have a chance to WIN. (Record or video everything you can)

[dymented 2,220]

Section 20 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 “A License to Kill or Detain Indefinitely?” Section 18 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (AWA) in certain circumstances enables an “Inspector” or a “Constable” to enter land and seize animals belonging to another person. The RSPCA has no powers under the AWA No inspectorate has yet been created under the Act. Reference to an “inspector” under the Act is therefore meaningless. There are no “Inspectors” at all under the AWA. The remainder of this article will therefore refer to “Constables”. Constables are generally police officers, although constables do exist in other bodies – perhaps most notably in HM Revenue and Customs. The very limited powers which were given to private agencies designated as “approved prosecutors” under the Protection of Animals (Amendment) Act 2000 (PAAA) have been repealed. Despite the police-style uniforms, which they are allowed to wear, employees and agents of the RSPCA are not “Inspectors” under the AWA - they have no more powers than you or me. Unaccountable private charities, such as the RSPCA, have no constables. They are also, to all intents and purposes, ordinary persons. As ordinary members of the public the RSPCA and its staff have no power to enter land or seize property. There is concern, particularly among the RSPCA’s traditional targets (small farms outside the RSPCA’s Freedom Food assurance scheme, pet shops, dog and cat breeders, non-RSPCA rescue centres and kennels etc) that some employees and agents of the RSPCA may, at some future date, be classified as “Inspectors” for the purpose of the AWA. Such a move would be, at best, a very unpopular move in some quarters. Ordinary members of the public may accompany the Police onto land only if they are invited in by the occupier, personally named in a warrant for entry, or otherwise legitimately invited in, by the police or another person, to assist them (for example in an extreme emergency). Circumstances in which Constables may enter and seize the circumstances in which a Constable may exercise the AWA’s powers of entry and seizure under section 20 normally relate to an animal which is suffering or, that if its circumstances don’t change, is likely to suffer. The Constable should only exercise this power if a veterinary surgeon certifies that those conditions exist. In circumstances where a veterinary surgeon is not available, a Constable can “self-certify” that those circumstances exist. This power of seizure is normally exercised by a Constable once entry to the premises has been effected either by way of a properly-obtained warrant under section 19(4) AWA. However, this can also be “self-certified” section 19 (1) AWA provided that the Constable reasonably believes there is a protected animal on the premises and that the animal is suffering or, if the circumstances of the animal do not change, it is likely to suffer. The “self-certified” route of entry does not allow the Constable access to land which is used as part of a private dwelling. Once animals are seized, what happens then? It is the Police who seize the animals under Section 18 if, and only if, it proves necessary. They, for convenience, will normally then hand them over to the custody of another – sometimes the RSPCA - for safe-keeping. The RSPCA will generally arrange commercial accommodation for those animals at boarding establishments of which they approve. If a prosecution then follows, it can sometimes months (or even years, if there is an appeal) for the case to conclude. Their animals are kept in the boarding establishments at very considerable cost to the RSPCA. There is also emotional detriment to the wellbeing of the animal and the owner to consider. Where very large numbers of commercial animals are seized - a phenomenon which is becoming increasingly common – this can result in bills for hundreds of thousands of pounds being run up by the police or the RSPCA with the boarding establishment very quickly. Arrangements which are made have frequently been criticised as improvident. Complaint is made about the retention of the animals for pointlessly long periods of time. Where, for example, very large numbers of sheep are seized, everyone would be financially better off if the animals were sold to the highest bidder and slaughtered – or even “euthanized”. What is there an alternative to retention pending trial? Applications can be made to the Magistrates Court under section 20 AWA. This allows a Magistrates Court to order any of the following in relation to an animal taken under section 18(5): (a) That specified treatment be administered to the animal; ( That possession of the animal be given up to a specified person; © That the animal be sold; (d) That the animal may be disposed of otherwise than by way of sale; or (e) That the animal may be destroyed. This is not a new power – a prosecutor could apply for a similar order under section 2 (1) of PAAA. However, it was only a Prosecutor who could apply to the Court. The Court had to be satisfied on the evidence of a veterinary surgeon that the welfare of the animals would be compromised if the order were not made. Furthermore, Section 2 was not a stand-alone provision, which the RSPCA claims that section 20 AWA is. The preamble to the 2000 Act describes “an Act to enable provision to be made for the care, disposal or slaughter of animals to which proceedings under Section 1 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 relate and for connected purposes”. So, effectively, orders were only applied under section 2 PAAA once criminal proceedings had begun under the Act and when it became apparent to the Prosecutor on the evidence of a veterinary surgeon that the welfare of the animals in their care was being compromised by prolonged boarding. There is no such specific provision in section 20 AWA – this has not, of course, been missed by the RSPCA’s legal department and the lawyers that it instructs. However, no Legal Aid is available to make or oppose such an application. This can now make it very expensive where, for example, the RSPCA make an application to “rehome” a dog pending trial of a “duty of care” offence. The RSPCA always use specialist Animal Welfare solicitors, and often one of their specialist barristers, to act on their behalf. This puts them at a very considerable advantage over a defendant in person opposing the Application – or even one who has instructed a local solicitor who had no knowledge of the complex laws relating to animal welfare. If it appears to the Court from evidence given by a veterinary surgeon, on one of these applications, that it is necessary in the interests of the welfare of the animals in question, for the Prosecutor to do one or more of the things mentioned in subsection (2) the Court may make an order authorising the following: (a) Taking charge of the animals and caring for them ( Selling the animals at a fair price © Disposing of the animals otherwise than by way of sale (d) Slaughtering the animals or causing or procuring them to be slaughtered. The Court in determining whether to exercise these powers has to have regard to all the circumstances including the desirability of protecting the owners’ interest, the value of the animals and also avoiding increasing costs. It seems that, under section 20 veterinary evidence no longer has to be called, and the court no longer has to be satisfied that the welfare of the animals is being compromised. Section 20(6) now states that when a court is considering making an order under section 20 AWA “shall have regard amongst other things to the desirability of protecting the animal’s value and avoid increasing any expenses which a person might be ordered to reimburse”. At first blush it would now appear that the Court must consider primarily the issue of boarding costs as a primary factor in deciding whether to make an order. However, by analogy to the 2000 Act provisions (which have now unfortunately been repealed), it must still be possible to argue that the welfare of the animals is paramount because it was under the 2000 Act and section 20(6) states that the Court “shall have regard to amongst other things” - therefore allowing appropriate welfare arguments to be introduced. The writer is experiencing many cases where - as soon as animals are seized on the pretext of section 4 or section 9 AWA investigations, applications are being made to the Court by the RSPCA for orders under section 20 AWA for the animals to be disposed of. What can you do if your animals are seized? Section 20(3) AWA states that the power conferred by section 20(1) shall be exercisable on application by (a) the owner of the animal or ( any other person appearing to the Court having sufficient interest in the animal. Under the 2000 Act, as observed above, it was only the prosecutor who could make such an application. Now, as the owner of the animal, you have an equal right to apply to the Court for an order for the animal to be returned to you if you believe that the animals have either been unlawfully seized and/or that the RSPCA simply don't have a case under section 4 or section 9 AWA to seize the animals in the first place. You might also apply for the animals to be disposed of to a third party, or through an auction or other sale. It will assist your application if you have veterinary evidence to support it, together with any other relevant evidence relating to the animals welfare or to possible unlawful entry and/or seizure. My advice to anybody who finds himself or herself on the wrong end of a section 20 application bought by the RSPCA, or any other prosecutor, is to decide what outcome is best for the owner-animal entity, and issue an application seeking that relief. This is actually a very straightforward process. A notice to the Court should specify what jurisdiction is requested (ideally by reference to section 20 (1)(a-e)), the animals concerned and exactly what order is asked for – together with any alternatives (“I would like the animals returned or, failing, that sold at X auction on [date]”). It will often be in a similar form to the order that has been served by the prosecutor. The general grounds of the application must be stated. These will make reference to the veterinary evidence, and any other evidence which there may be. The Magistrates Court staff will be helpful, although alleged animal abusers do report difficulties dealing with some court staff in a few places. An application can be issued by the Court to be heard at the same time as that issued by the RSPCA. There is also no fee payable – but you the RSPCA will often instruct Counsel, and sometimes Leading Counsel, for these applications and seek to recover the costs if they win their application, or another applicant for a section 20 order loses theirs against the RSPCA. There is also nothing to stop you the owner of an animal in appropriate cases issuing their own application under section 20 AWA before the RSPCA get a chance to issue theirs. There are cost implications – the RSPCA, as observed above, alleges that these are pure civil proceedings and that costs therefore go with cause. This means the loser can be ordered to pay the other side’s costs or a contribution to them. Therefore, it is strongly advisable, before you make an order to the Court under s 20 AWA that advice is taken. Do the RSPCA have any locus to make a S 20 application? The writer has doubts whether in fact the RSPCA have the right to make an application under section 20 of the Animal Welfare Act in any event. Section 20(3) AWA states that the class of person who can make an application under this section are either the ‘owners’, or ‘another class of person with a sufficient interest in the animal’. The RSPCA and the Police are seldom the owners of the animals seized. They must therefore argue that the have a ‘sufficient interest’ in the animals seized enabling them to make an application. Sadly, “sufficient interest” is one the things which is not defined in the Act. The question has to be asked what relationship in law do the RSPCA have with seized animals seized under the AWA? We know from Section 18 that the RSPCA do not have the power under the Act to actually seize the animal - the Police will have done this. The Police may then, by way of convenience, hand the animals over to the RSPCA for safekeeping. There is no bailee/bailor relationship either between the owner of the animal and the police and/or the RSPCA. Nor is there such a relationship between the police and the RSPCA because that relationship has to be by consent normally in writing and be for reward because certain duties and liabilities flow from such a relationship. Therefore at its highest the RSPCA’s interest in the animal is as a “gratuitous bailee” which hardly equates with ownership or a “sufficient interest”. Therefore, before any section 20 AWA application can be brought by the RSPCA, the Court’s jurisdiction to hear the Application should be examined, and challenged if necessary. The argument is not yet settled as to whether the RSPCA, or other person to whom the animals are bailed, has a ‘sufficient interest’ in the animal, entitling them to make such an application. What if there is an unlawful entry and unlawful seizure? In these cases, it is queried whether the Police and/or the RSPCA can argue that they have a ‘sufficient interest’ in the animal when they have come by the same unlawfully? The position is close to that of a thief claiming title to goods which he has taken. Of course, the thief can seldom get any title in his goods or have any recognisable proprietary interest in the same – but “all title is relative” and a person with possession can recover goods from a recover against a thief. Sinister developments, abuse of process? We do not know whether or not Parliament’s intention was that section 20 AWA should be akin to Section 2 of PAAA and that these applications should not be made until a criminal prosecution had been issued and served by the prosecuting authority. Indeed, the drafting of AWA is so poor and ill-conceived in places – a hallmark of the very political nature of the issues - that this will perhaps never be known. However there has been a sinister trend, where Section 20 AWA applications are being used on a stand-alone basis. Certain owners are being targeted, their animals are being seized whether lawfully or unlawfully and the RSPCA are using the Police to use their powers under Section 18 and 19 for this purpose. Once the animals are in the RSPCA’s possession, applications are being immediately made to the Court under section 20 AWA in the total absence of any criminal prosecution or contemplated prosecution. In the view of the writer, it could never have been Parliament’s intention to allow members of the public, which the RSPCA are, to seize another person’s animals possibly lawfully or unlawfully and then make an application to the Court for the sale of, or to kill, those animals in the total absence of any criminal proceedings. In cases where criminal proceedings are successfully defended, and a s 20 order has been made before the outcome was known, the animals are more likely to have been killed or disposed of. This frustrates the return of those animals to their rightful, and often loving, owner who has been found by the Court to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Section 20 AWA unfortunately is proving to be not only a “licence to take” but also a “license to kill”. It is causing untold emotional misery to animal owners who fall foul of such an application and don't have the means to oppose the same. The law has to change. A start would be to make Legal Aid available to oppose this part of the draconian legislation. Courts are currently making these orders, normally unopposed, and animals are being killed or otherwise disposed of. Owners - particularly the ones who are inexperienced court users, and most in need of protection - are sometimes unaware of what is happening, and even when, or whether, they ought to appear.

[3175darren 1,100]

Some interesting reading that, good to know where you stand, or what to expect,

[dytkos 17,784]

Mods can this be pinned please?

 

Cheers, D.

[BGD 6,436]

Mods can this be pinned please?

 

Cheers, D.

Definitely should be pinned

 

Brilliant resource for folk being persecuted by the RSPCA, fair play to you dymented using your experience to help others in the same situation Said it before but the way you've stood firm against the onslaught from these c**ts and kept fighting for justice says a lot about you as a man.

[moxy 617]

Pinned

[dytkos 17,784]

Nice one Moxy.

 

Cheers, D.

[Francie 6,368]

Thanks for that dy, keep her lit mate.

[j j m 6,536]

very well put

[The one 8,463]

I keep telling my son if they or the police ask anything just say NO COMMENT its when you open your mouth the trouble starts  they have no legal right to caution you and give you a interview if you say f off to them they cant detain you 

[Deker 3,478]

On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:38, The one said:

I keep telling my son if they or the police ask anything just say NO COMMENT its when you open your mouth the trouble starts  they have no legal right to caution you and give you a interview if you say f off to them they cant detain you 

Am I missing something, the Police can do a lot to you should they so desire, but the RSPCA can't!

[dymented 2,220]

1 hour ago, Deker said:

Am I missing something, the Police can do a lot to you should they so desire, but the RSPCA can't!

The rspca have no legal powers at all They can not enter property , detain you ,question you with out your permission , They can not legally come on to your property with out a police officer and a warrant  The warrant must state the rspca on it , any interview you get asked to do is voluntary be it at home or a police station , You do not have to take part in it while a charity worker is present  ( all interviews at a police station means you can get a free solicitor of your choice ) The rspce take privet prosecutions out the same as you or any one else can , if one knocks on your door evict them from your property if they turn up with a police officer and no warrant demanding you let them in refuse ( record everything you can as they tell lots off lies )

[j j m 6,536]

I had them at mine last year to check my birds of prey out as a neighbour had called them about the noise of my breeding pair of European eagle owls at breeding time,2 times I was not in they left big notices on my gate saying they wanted to enter my property,i tried ringing them and leaving messages on e mail still no reply,then they come again and were busy putting another sign on my gate when a neighbour a good one ,saw them and phoned me I rushed home jumped out the car I said what you doing they said we have tried contacting you I said what with big notices on my gate answere your fooking phone or reply to e mails and you can contact me ,any way it was a young las and the size of me to her I did not want to upset her I said come on in,she checked all my birds and the mewses and she said everything is fine,i said heres my mobile number keep it on file if you need to talk to me again instead of putting big notices on my gate,it looks as if im not treating my animals good,it might of been a different situation if it had of been a bloke like some of the jumped up little hittlers you get,but they never come back

[Saltmoon 2,208]

When they got me they took the dog from my missus house with police present but before warrant turned up got police to arrest me when I was back from work left me in a cell for a few hours then interviewed me with police but the copper looked board!! Gave no comment to the lot the fella was getting right pissed off!! But clive rees got the job done for us I didn't get me dog back but they showed evidence of him rehomed and alive!! Which isn't normal for the rspca they pts most of what they take!! 

[j j m 6,536]

best thing with them feckers is say no comment there a bunch of tree huggers