Are we our own worst enemies?

[craigemo 0]

I'm not trying to cause any arguments or niggling, just trying to generate some opinions.

 

Whilst visiting this site lately I've seen loads of litters/dogs advertised "TO WORKING HOMES ONLY". By dis-allowing the pet owner/occasional worker from buying our stock are we diluting working blood on a national scale by creating a market for the pet breeder?

 

My point is this: If Little Johnny wants a Patterdale etc and you turn him down, he's not going to go off the idea. He is simply going to open the Freeads and buy one (regardless of blood/ability in the feild) from a pet breeder who couldn't give a monkey's who buys his dogs. Would it have been better to sell Little Johnny one of your workers, 'cos if he breeds from it at least it will be passing on some good blood therefore preserving the true purpose of our dogs? Or are you a true beliver of "use it or loose it"?

 

 

Craig

Edited December 18, 2007 by craigemo

[Giro 2,648]

you could sell the best dogs in the land some numpty will breed some shit e to it and splash the pups about on someone eles name and line feck that dont give messer a look in ...

folk will always brred shit

[Malt 379]

Let the pet breeder have his dogs. Best case scenario is that the dogs will end up like the springer spaniel. Look at the 'Show bred' ESS, and the 'Field bred' ESS. They went their seperate ways over 70 years ago. The show people got their good looking dogs, and the workers kept the best working dogs. You'll still always get good workers if you know where to look.

[earth&hounds 94]

thing to do is tell them there are only dog pups left they should not be fussy about its sex if its for a pet

[Guest Lord B]

Let the pet breeder have his dogs. Best case scenario is that the dogs will end up like the springer spaniel. Look at the 'Show bred' ESS, and the 'Field bred' ESS. They went their seperate ways over 70 years ago. The show people got their good looking dogs, and the workers kept the best working dogs. You'll still always get good workers if you know where to look.

Totally agree. I'm a big spaniel fan and there is huge discrepancies in the breeding of them for not only work and show, but also the pet market.......

[Guest ripstop]

WELL BRED DOGS SHOULDNT NEED TO BE ADVERTISED

[Guest ashfoster]

I'm not trying to cause any arguments or niggling, just trying to generate some opinions.

 

Whilst visiting this site lately I've seen loads of litters/dogs advertised "TO WORKING HOMES ONLY". By dis-allowing the pet owner/occasional worker from buying our stock are we diluting working blood on a national scale by creating a market for the pet breeder?

 

My point is this: If Little Johnny wants a Patterdale etc and you turn him down, he's not going to go off the idea. He is simply going to open the Freeads and buy one (regardless of blood/ability in the feild) from a pet breeder who couldn't give a monkey's who buys his dogs. Would it have been better to sell Little Johnny one of your workers, 'cos if he breeds from it at least it will be passing on some good blood therefore preserving the true purpose of our dogs? Or are you a true beliver of "use it or loose it"?

 

 

Craig

i run all my pups on and when i see how there turning out i let em go as pets, what i mean is anyone who has been in terriers as long as i have will no you get pet material even out of working stock, the only reason i put working home is if that pup or older dog has worked, or showing signs them that dont go as pets which is stated Edited December 21, 2007 by ashfoster

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Part of the argument is to only breed when you need replacements and not for the sake of it .Never sold a pup to a pet owner ,infact never sold a pup to anyone .Working homes or pts any surplus .Its the soft attitude by most breeders that allows surplus in lines to get outside of working lads and therefore out of your control .Its hard enough to produce top workers within the lines let alone having to chance an outcross to something you sold way back .Its ok to run on litters but how many are ruthless enough to cull any non workers ,not many .Like has been said ,no need to advertise good stock and every reason to avoid the ads because IMO the pups were bred for the sake of breeding and not for the good of the working terrier .JMO.

[BlueCoyote 0]

Part of the argument is to only breed when you need replacements and not for the sake of it .Never sold a pup to a pet owner ,infact never sold a pup to anyone .Working homes or pts any surplus .Its the soft attitude by most breeders that allows surplus in lines to get outside of working lads and therefore out of your control .Its hard enough to produce top workers within the lines let alone having to chance an outcross to something you sold way back .Its ok to run on litters but how many are ruthless enough to cull any non workers ,not many .Like has been said ,no need to advertise good stock and every reason to avoid the ads because IMO the pups were bred for the sake of breeding and not for the good of the working terrier .JMO.

 

Thats what i say.. couldnt agree more.. and sadly that logic applies to ALL breeds - except lap dogs and toy breeds who were indeed developed AS pets and only pets with damn few exceptions .... unless there is some mad man out there ratting with a pekingese.. if so then please send me some video footage of it!!

 

if you want a PET then adopt it from a shelter or rescue.... or buy one of the PET breeds.... leave the damned workers in the field where they belong!

 

 

also want to add that if little johnny wants a puppy from a working line of dogs... how can you, as a responsible person/breeder of fine working dogs, be sure that little Johnny wont get bored of this scrappy little terrier? what if Little Johnny kicks the crap out of the dog because it chews his $200 shoes to ribbons, or pisses all over the house, eats the furniture, then attacks and kills the neighbour's pet rabbits? or gets loose and bites someone walking past?

 

hence the reason for rescues in the first place. some idiot got a working dog and didnt know what he had.... it went wild with boredom and suddenly its the dog's fault, NOT the owner's.... and it is the dog that suffers in the shelter because no one wants a wild spaniel, terrier, bulldog, labrador, collie, you name it....

Edited December 21, 2007 by BlueCoyote

[Guest dale69]

Never sold a pup to a pet owner ,infact never sold a pup to anyone .

 

sense at last .

[Guest tawny]

I'm not trying to cause any arguments or niggling, just trying to generate some opinions.

 

Whilst visiting this site lately I've seen loads of litters/dogs advertised "TO WORKING HOMES ONLY". By dis-allowing the pet owner/occasional worker from buying our stock are we diluting working blood on a national scale by creating a market for the pet breeder?

 

My point is this: If Little Johnny wants a Patterdale etc and you turn him down, he's not going to go off the idea. He is simply going to open the Freeads and buy one (regardless of blood/ability in the feild) from a pet breeder who couldn't give a monkey's who buys his dogs. Would it have been better to sell Little Johnny one of your workers, 'cos if he breeds from it at least it will be passing on some good blood therefore preserving the true purpose of our dogs? Or are you a true beliver of "use it or loose it"?

 

 

Craig

often then not little johny could make a worker out of any dog he gets.

the best lines can sometimes go wrong,and yet johny could have one of the best around and all because he spends time with the dog.

makes no difference where it comes from,it will work with johney.

[allgame 0]

are you high?

[BlueCoyote 0]

My point is this: If Little Johnny wants a Patterdale etc and you turn him down, he's not going to go off the idea. He is simply going to open the Freeads and buy one (regardless of blood/ability in the feild) from a pet breeder who couldn't give a monkey's who buys his dogs. Would it have been better to sell Little Johnny one of your workers, 'cos if he breeds from it at least it will be passing on some good blood therefore preserving the true purpose of our dogs? Or are you a true beliver of "use it or loose it"?

 

 

Craig

 

i see your point there. we have a similar problem with breed rescues - or any big name rescue group. you have to be Jesus and walk on water... no wait... no they would even turn Jesus down.. you have to practically be a millionaire, have no children or grand children (spouse is optional but no boy or girlfriends) in fact its better if you're gay. and you must be retired so you can spend all your time and devote all your attention to this animal. and you must submit to homeinvasions.. i mean inspections.. to make sure you are following all the rules.... and i forgot to mention the adoption fee....

many people - average joe types - see the adoption fee and all the requirements and decide its EASIER to go spend the same amount of money ($100 to $400 for a rescue) and get themselves a pure bred puppy with no strings attached..... many rescues(not all!!) shoot themselves in the foot... and so do many breeders... but honestly i believe that someone who breeds dogs as a hobby should be kicked in the head.. that includes dog show types.

 

i say keep doing it like you are.... breed for a purpose. fulfill a need.. dont just breed dogs to make money, or to aid supply and demand. there is more than enough supply and not enough demand... and what makes you think any dog you breed is going to be better than any dog someone else breeds? ESPECIALLY if the buyer is some halfwit with a short attention span? i have several breeds of dogs i would love to own some day, but i already know i will never live long enough to do so.... so i settle for joining forums like this and reading about and looking at the pics and videos of all the cool working breeds i know i will probably never even meet in person, let alone bring into my own house to live!!

 

as for hurting your own cause.. no not at all..... outcrossing and breeding worker to worker is a blessing many "pure breds" are dying for... literally!! closed registries are killing these bench dogs.. they dare not cross them with anything because then they would be MUTTS!! but what the hell does it matter if it LOOKS like the standard? these "standard" dogs do anything but STAND there anyway right? take an actual working Jack Russell from someone in this forum and enter him into a classy dog show, they would laugh him out of the ring, no doubt about that. but take one of those show dogs and put him to work and see how long he lasts.. or even has an interest.. doubtful.

 

no i say its the opposite. the enemy is the show dog circuit, standardised breeding, closed registries, and the pet industry.

[dirtdog 0]

so in the end all you will have is working dogs.no pet terriers from working strains.

what a load of shite talk about making it obvious for them.

anyway its just snobery.my little border lakey of no breeding whatsoever will work week in week out.

you tell him he aint as good worker as some linebreed blackun.

and guess what if joe public wants a pup joe public can have one.

the more terriers about the better as far as im concerned .

[jonesy 111]

Its alright saying get a pup out of working stock but most lads who breed their dogs for graft arent going to give a young lad one of theier pups then the only people the lad can approach is the bloke who is breeding so called working dogs for big bucks or go to the classified ads for a cheaper alternative.

when i was a lot younger everyone in my area had russells,some were used for graft and some were just pets but the grafters done what was asked of them so maybe sometimes its worth that chance.