Plummers - just ratters?

[Guest proudy]

good post bbb.

i know im biased towards the crosses but if you have a good bitch i would outcross.its no good leaving it untill nothing is left,you outcross before that.

use a good half cross and the resulting 3/4 breds will be nigh on plummers anyway.

In my opinion its a waste of a good bitch when there are still a few good dogs around to use (agreed there are not many but there are a few). Fine to use a plummer dog over a good bitch of any other breed or type, if you wish to create a 1/2 or 3/4 bred, which appears to be your preference, but to do it the other way round is just plain stupid.

 

I noticed Millet was looking for a plummer bitch to use his dog over in order to keep a pup himself - he could have chosen to use a working bitch of any type or breed, but he is looking for a plummer (wonder why ) it might be rare and difficult to find but in my opinion its well worth putting in the effort of trying to find one..

 

I know your dog is a very good worker Phil, but then so are lots of dogs of other types and crosses and I realise that you wish to keep a pup from him to continue your line. If I was looking for a working dog to use over my plummer bitch (which at present I am not) I would choose a dog like millets plummer in preference to yours, no disrespect to red, hes a good worker, but whilst there are still working plummers about then thats what I'd be looking for Its the dilution of these working lines and people wasting good bitches to create their own crosses that leads us to the position we have today.

 

keeps do you not think people are crossing their plummer bitches to other terrier types to try and increase the chance of some genuine earth dogs resulting from the litter? something that the pure plummers seem to be lacking in.

[phil wright 2]

keeps the position the plummer finds itself in today is due to people who kill a few rats and chase a few bunnies and think they have good honest working terriers.they then breed from these untried young bitches at a time when they should be worked not producing more puppies.

i know you dont need millets dog as youve just lined another of your bitches.

 

i must stress that ive never owned a pure plummer as they are known today so have no experience of what keeps and others breed.

maybe im missing out!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phil wright 2]

to be fair to keeps she does have a point.

i have no affection for the plummer terrier as such.they generally were found lacking in important areas.i do like the plummers nose and whilst i dont think it is as good as some make out(they are not fecking beagles) i do rate them for hunting.

however,as the half crosses and especially the 3/4 are as good at hunting and often fairly usefull earthdogs thats what id rather have.

id be reluctant to go back after owning the crosses.

 

so if you like the plummer you have to keep what keeps and co breed.forget about working terriers your owning a breed regardless of ability.it should do rats and chase bunnies about.might even do fox who knowsits red and white and can be registered and put into shows.not my thing but its a free country.

if like me you want the plummers hunting ability with a bit more prospect of owning a working dog you cannot rule out the crosses.mongrels yes.........more chance of a worker if bred from workers...........id say yes aswell.

 

i have no axe to grind,as keeps has said red is a fairly good sporting terrier.i respect her for saying that.her dogs can hunt aswell from the little ive seen,i wouldnt question that.

 

ive had my say,its just an opinion.if i find a farm teeming with rats id invite keeps out no problem.plummers can rat,few would argue they arent good to watch on that game.

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

""especially when you read the results and see just whats been produced , from what I can see anything thats done any winning or working now traces back to these dogs,""

 

 

This is harking back to the shows again, and breeding for the cosmetic values.I know of several litters there were born over the last two yrs and the stud dog wasnt worked, it lives on a farm and may see the odd rat but why was it used...it looks nice.

[Keeps 403]

i know you dont need millets dog as youve just lined another of your bitches.

 

Thats not quite what I was meaning Phil, and you know it. What I meant was that if I was looking for a working dog to use over a bitch of mine, then I would look for one of the very few plummers left that do work in preference to a dog of mixed breeding - just to keep what little there is left going a little longer.

 

Yes I have just lined a bitch of mine, and I hadnt planned to be doing it for quite some time yet. But one cannot predict certain things, and the dog I had planned to use is dying, he has only weeks left to live he works to his underground quarry and his genes should not be lost to the breed, in my opinion. He has lined only a very few bitches in his life, 3 or 4 I think. Soooooo, in my humble attempt to keep these working lines going I used a bitch, who shows much promise, she hasnt been tested to the full yet, though she has done a little, and she has impressed me and others who have seen her work. Whether or not she has pups to him is in the lap of the Gods. She injured herself while out today, got herself caught up in barbed wire so we shall just have to wait and see now. If she produces any pups they may work, they may not, but no-one can accuse me of not trying to do what I feel is right for the breed.

 

What you do Phil, is entirely up to you.

[phil wright 2]

keeps i want to leave this as its a pointless exercise.

you dont have to justify breeding from an untried bitch to me regardless of its breeding.i might have to do the same or buy in a pup whos grandparents worked but not the parents.

 

we finally agree,the working plummer is in trouble if we ratters are thinking of breeding from yet another untried bitch.

is it sensible?.........probably not.

 

to be honest keeps you and i dont work our terriers do we? we play on these forums when we should keep quiet because we know feck all.

 

we do take our lurchers out though,maybe we should stick to them

[Pink Panther 0]

Edited December 19, 2007 by Pink Panther

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

As someone who is on the outside looking in so to speak ,where plummers are concerned ,i think it is commendable that some of you are trying to save a little bit of work quality in your dogs but with many others content to breed for pound notes you are really up against it .To breed from an unproven bitch is not the way forward ,at least if she not from a long line of workers but then again you may have no choice but the way to improve stock is to outcross to something similar that is doing the job and then back to your finest .If i was in your position i would forget all about maintaining any links to a standard and outcross to a working russel from proven lines .But then again if rats are your thing then im sure you have it in hand ?.

[Keeps 403]

On the basis of multi purpose terriers, to be used for ratting, rabbiting, shooting, retrieving/flushing there pretty good, and some are decent on fox... there not out and out digging dogs, but most people know that.

 

Ian Ive only just noticed your post and I do agree with you

 

The rest just isnt worth arguing with/about - each to our own, plummers are for me, not to everyones taste i agree.

[phil wright 2]

not at all pink panther,no fisticuffs.

a different opinion thats all based upon our own experiences.we keep ratting/bushing terriers,not working terriers.

 

the only thing we do regularly is work lurchers.i dought we would disagree on much regarding lurchers.stick a ferret in,no nets........lovely jubbly.

[Guest MOLLY]

Keeps, i dont know what it is about you but we have not had any plummer threads for ages, then you come back and they are on trying to lure you into an argument Not a critisism, i am the bull x version of you

Moll.

 

Edited to add i mean i defend the bull cross, as you do the plummer, not that i look like a bull cross version of you...or at least i hope not

 

Edited again cos that sounds derogatory, and wasn't meant too. :nea:

Im going to shut up now

Moll.

Edited December 19, 2007 by MOLLY

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Keeps, i dont know what it is about you but we have not had any plummer threads for ages, then you come back and they are on trying to lure you into an argument Not a critisism, i am the bull x version of you

Moll.

 

Edited to add i mean i defend the bull cross, as you do the plummer, not that i look like a bull cross version of you...or at least i hope not

 

Edited again cos that sounds derogatory, and wasn't meant too. :nea:

Im going to shut up now

Moll.

 

Keep digging girl ,your nearly there.

[Keeps 403]

Moll I dont know, I wish Id never rejoined again I just cant help myself when I feel injustice is being done but in my defense i didnt start the thread and never would. Ive been got by another yellow buzzer

 

All I will say is I am very passionate about what I feel very strongly about and will defend them most probably to my detriment

 

as for the rest you know it isnt true. Theres nowt wrong with bull x's though - plummers that is

 

Edited to add, Im going to shut up too

Edited December 19, 2007 by Keeps

[Guest MOLLY]

Keep digging girl ,your nearly there.

Moll.

[phil wright 2]

good posts millet and foxdropper.

we all have different ideas,it would be silly of me to think mine is right when others who do the same thing think otherwise.

 

anyway i wish everyone a good season..............i just wish i had a bloody dog to use