Training Techniques

[jimmy8 6]

Alryt then i was wondering how everyone goes about training there dogs, reward based, clicker ect.. and how good the results seem

[Casso 1,261]

The big thing for me with bringing up a pup is to build trust and manage him so I don't have to correct him,

 

Most of the traditional methods work but I want his prey instinct focused on me first , I don't introduce him to prey until I have a good handle on him first

Building trust is a first priority and you can't build that if I have to keep correcting him for showing interest in other things so I manage him so he can't f**k up

 

Put it this when a dog is energised hes expressing predator energy, energy in every case can only flow from the predator to the prey, not the other way round, the more dominant I am with the pup the more attracted he is to expressing himself to anything preylike which is usually a recipe for disaster with cats are other dogs etc and just about any other thing as well

 

So I don't socialise until I can intercept his prey instinct and I can't do that if the pup is fearful of me, fear is frustratingly untrainable

You can dominate a pup as much as you like but all your training will break down when his energy levels get too high because we then have made ourselves too predator like to the dog and no amount of f***ing and blinding at the dog will change that

Build trust and whatever training method you use will be far easier introduce to the pup

Every pup goes through phases biting jumping up all that shit , people react to it as a way of quelling this wild side , a way of making the pup social ,its wrong it's only a phase so I don't correct it I don't want fear in the pup because it's the one thing I can't control

Edited April 21, 2017 by Casso

[bird 9,943]

The big thing for me with bringing up a pup is to build trust and manage him so I don't have to correct him,

 

Most of the traditional methods work but I want his prey instinct focused on me first , I don't introduce him to prey until I have a good handle on him first

Building trust is a first priority and you can't build that if I have to keep correcting him for showing interest in other things so I manage him so he can't f**k up

 

Put it this when a dog is energised hes expressing predator energy, energy in every case can only flow from the predator to the prey, not the other way round, the more dominant I am with the pup the more attracted he is to expressing himself to anything preylike which is usually a recipe for disaster with cats are other dogs etc and just about any other thing as well

 

So I don't socialise until I can intercept his prey instinct and I can't do that if the pup is fearful of me, fear is frustratingly untrainable

You can dominate a pup as much as you like but all your training will break down when his energy levels get too high because we then have made ourselves too predator like to the dog and no amount of f***ing and blinding at the dog will change that

Build trust and whatever training method you use will be far easier introduce to the pup

Every pup goes through phases biting jumping up all that shit , people react to it as a way of quelling this wild side , a way of making the pup social ,its wrong it's only a phase so I don't correct it I don't want fear in the pup because it's the one thing I can't control

good thread

[Mickey Finn 3,014]

I use force. How much depends on the dog. The results are well, reliable dogs. I believe in happying up a dog before training and it really seems to help. Another important and easy to over look factor is time spent. Trying not to over do it time wise and leave the dog wanting to do one more. That and ending on a happy note of course.

[Casso 1,261]

I use force. How much depends on the dog. The results are well, reliable dogs. I believe in happying up a dog before training and it really seems to help. Another important and easy to over look factor is time spent. Trying not to over do it time wise and leave the dog wanting to do one more. That and ending on a happy note of course.

 

When you say you use force mickey , what exactly do you mean , to train or install fear?

 

I use a correction to redirect when more mature but even that correction has been primed to induce a certain mindset in the dog

 

An example of it is a pop on the long line the dog has on while out , he knows the chuck on the line correction means something good is following it changes his mindset and tunes him in

 

My reading of the dog is the more domance based you make the training the longer it takes the effing dog to truly tune into you

 

I don't want to spend my time stopping the dog doing stuff , a long line avoids that but most of all I want the mutt to be on the same wave length as me , I want the dog to stop doing stuff because if it doesn't feel right for me it shouldn't feel right for him

[neems 2,406]

 

I use force. How much depends on the dog. The results are well, reliable dogs. I believe in happying up a dog before training and it really seems to help. Another important and easy to over look factor is time spent. Trying not to over do it time wise and leave the dog wanting to do one more. That and ending on a happy note of course.

 

When you say you use force mickey , what exactly do you mean , to train or install fear?

 

I use a correction to redirect when more mature but even that correction has been primed to induce a certain mindset in the dog

 

An example of it is a pop on the long line the dog has on while out , he knows the chuck on the line correction means something good is following it changes his mindset and tunes him in

 

My reading of the dog is the more domance based you make the training the longer it takes the effing dog to truly tune into you

 

I don't want to spend my time stopping the dog doing stuff , a long line avoids that but most of all I want the mutt to be on the same wave length as me , I want the dog to stop doing stuff because if it doesn't feel right for me it shouldn't feel right for him

 

 

Read up on the Koehler method of training.

 

Basically just old school training that's a bit too un-PC for the average fur mommy/fufu combo at your local obedience class.

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

The training and schooling of a working dog,...often depends on what your desired 'end product' is destined to be used for....

 

Sheepdogs, Cattle Dogs , Fetchers, Carriers,...Biters, Fighters and Grippers,...frequently require a different approach...

 

I have always found that,..(all things being equal)..working with the right tool for the job, speeds up the learning process .

 

Utilising an example that has been purpose bred for the intended task,..don't half make life easier

Edited April 23, 2017 by Phil Lloyd

[Squeamish5 309]

If you're just talking about basic obedience, lead walking, living in the house, getting the dog tuned into wanting to do what you want it to do, then 'marker' training (like clicker, but without needing a clicky thing) has worked for me and my dog.

The dog does a desired behaviour, (whether you asked for it or he just did it) you 'Mark' that desired behaviour (I say 'YES') and reward.

More useful has been just reading through training threads on here.

It will obvs depend on your dog, and what you want from it.

Then figure out how to make that happen, with what you have (you, your dog, your commitment)

Then of course there are people who just raise dogs without really giving it any thought. Like people who just can play any instrument, or dance, or throw and catch, just intuitively, and don't really get why anyone would any need help to do it.

[terryd 8,525]

I enjoy threads like this lots to learn and i find them very interesting. My dog has turned 3 now and I am still steering him and tweaking him to my liking. But since he has matured life is much easier and he wants to do the right thing. I tried treat training but got fed up of what felt like bribing the dog so dropped that and just started being firm but fair and coupled with him growing up we have moved along nicely.

I have also learned to give him free reign when actually hunting so he can do his thing. I have made so many mistakes with him its unbelievable If I had my time again with him I would do what casso says which would have worked a treat I suspect. The most important thing would have been get all training done before ever letting get with a mile of a rabbit or any thing else and never put him in a position to stuff up

Been more than one occasion he has driven me to despair but I am glad I stuck with him and that in its self was a lesson for me

 

[Casso 1,261]

What I'm ultimately talking about is focusing a dogs prey Instinct on its owner

 

Every dog is interpreting the world through its prey instinct anyway, what where and how do I make prey is second to none for a working dog

 

We have been tuning dog instincts into whatever we wish for a very long time and no other animal will respond like the dog even our closest relative the chimp would rather rip your arm off than follow where your pointing it ,

 

The main issue I pick up from threads like this is that you have to enforce yourself on the dog as if his wild side is not quashed he will grow up to be a complete rehab case , want to take over the house and just ignore every command it's understandable it's the message been proclaimed

 

But a point I have returned to on many occasions here is that the dog is born social its doesn't have to be disciplined to be social it only has to have its prey instinct fulfilled , that it , that the whole f***ing secret out of the bag

 

When a dog has its instincts tuned through us into what ever , he makes himself social , it's how a pack works , what I like you don't what does it for you won't do it for me , two dogs living together are proof of this they become equal but opposite to each other it's one Mother Nature cleverest trick

 

You can put pics of big scary dogs up and say "well it won't work with this brute " well your wrong mate , give me a hard bitten dog any day because his temperament is right there at the top it's easy to find and work it , highly driven dogs are like putty because prey making is first on their agenda

 

Have faith in the nature of dogs , every dog that goes off the rails was once a pup that ran up and greeted its owner lovingly what happened between that and iit ending up in a shelter is down to an owner that can't quite understand what happened , he follow all the rules, he didn't give it an inch he was the boss man, what happened was the dog was reading off a different script mate ..

Edited April 23, 2017 by Casso

[Mickey Finn 3,014]

 

I use force. How much depends on the dog. The results are well, reliable dogs. I believe in happying up a dog before training and it really seems to help. Another important and easy to over look factor is time spent. Trying not to over do it time wise and leave the dog wanting to do one more. That and ending on a happy note of course.

 

When you say you use force mickey , what exactly do you mean , to train or install fear?

 

I use a correction to redirect when more mature but even that correction has been primed to induce a certain mindset in the dog

 

An example of it is a pop on the long line the dog has on while out , he knows the chuck on the line correction means something good is following it changes his mindset and tunes him in

 

My reading of the dog is the more domance based you make the training the longer it takes the effing dog to truly tune into you

 

I don't want to spend my time stopping the dog doing stuff , a long line avoids that but most of all I want the mutt to be on the same wave length as me , I want the dog to stop doing stuff because if it doesn't feel right for me it shouldn't feel right for him

 

Force = correction.

[jimmy8 6]

I have had a number of dogs in my life to date not all working and have learnt off each but my border terrier that I had was brilliant, unfortunately lost him at 2.

I'm very very green on the whole hunting scene but did a little ratting with the border and always wondered if that aided in how well he learnt.

always open to new ways of learning and we all want the dog to be the best he or she can be. And I for one don't want to be the reason the dog is ruined

[terryd 8,525]

When I was a young lad I never did any training just what was done during there actually working. They were never socialised as I didn't really know any one at least near me.

I used to do a bit in the winter with some lads from the valleys and i could chuck any of mine in the van with there's no problem at all. All stock broken and great recall. The jr responded to hand signals a treat not because I taught him on purpose but when he saw me frantically jesturing over to the left he new that was where the game was and off he went.

They all pulled and none would even do a sit. I didn't care because because they were rarely on leads any way. But they all new there job

[jimmy8 6]

Anyone any advice with a chronic biter/nipper when the nipping starts the dog isn't for telling no to so I beleive my only option is to crate until calm or relatively calm.

[Casso 1,261]

An over stimulated pup has to respond to how it feels and it's first point of call is to grab something ,

At that age, its a phase it's going through but effort can be put into reducing the source of stimulation, inside calm , outside play, always

 

Don't be fussing/ playing in the home , it shouldn't be felt to be a play area for the pup,

 

Dogs make associations between different environment due to how it makes them feel which means that if the pup has a history of f***ing about in the house when he walks back into the same area he becomes stimulated through physical memory/ he feels how he felt the last time, like s dog becoming energised at a spot where he caught a rabbit , it's the same principle

 

Crate inside f**k about outside