Controversial !

[DogMan85 722]

 

 

 

 

I don't get the bull blood, why would you set yourself back by two or three generations, life's too short !

If from what the bull blood aficionados are saying, the first or second generations aren't much use, why would you put yourself through the wait ? Surely you'd be better off finding a working terrier with the style you're after.

DD

 

That is the question on every terriermens mind when they hear that Mr. Breay and others MAY have added Bull blood.

 

Quoting from "The Fell terrier" there was a well known terrierman who approached Mr. Breay at a show and asked him about Bull blood in his terriers. I believe the answer was there was none. (These men are still alive so the story can be verified regardless of the book source)

That terrierman went over and asked because no one had seen that type of dog before in the area.

 

Now most terriermen can see bull influence in a dog, terrier or running dog or even mongrel. It stands out like a sore thumb.

This man did not ask lightly, he and his friends believed that there was bull blood added.

 

And everyone would agree that the size would increase, so why would a man working in the Lake district need the attributes of a bull terrier?

I would like to be able to ask him. but that cannot happen.

So we can debate whether bull was added or not, into White terriers, Fell terriers, it is an interesting topic if you are interested in working terriers.

 

As the post said...Controversial...but interesting.

And another million dollar question is if the Old English Bulldog was as game as they say it was then why did they cross it with Terriers to create the dog that went on to be the APBT?

 

I don't believe the general consensus that the Bulldog was too slow and ponderous for fighting, how the hell can a dog that works Bulls be slow and ponderous? Maybe the working Terriers have been game all along because you wouldn't cross a Gamedog with a cur to create a fighting animal.

maybe it was a continuous process going on for hundreds of years adding terrier to small mastiff types(something like the cur (breed)dogs in america)-see plenty over there crossing them with jagd and other terrier types-must have a reason for doing so.the original bulldog still exists in the deep south(not an american bulldog but similar)

Truth of the matter nobody on this planet knows the whole truth, I've seen these old pics of white dogs that resemble the American Bulldog but the APBT fanciers like to claim these are just a type of APBT. I Think it's pretty obvious to me that some lines have more Bulldog in them and others have more Terrier influence in them, it's fascinating for me.

[Bosun11 537]

I just think we all look too hard at it, bull blooded terriers have always been around, if one was an exceptional worker, why wouldn't Breay or anyone else give it a go. Didn't have to be direct bull blood. And a drop can alter the conformation of most terriers.

Not that i really have any clue but i've always wondered if Breay simply used this mysterious blood to improve the looks of his dogs as much as for working ability. He knew he had great workers through FB's dogs and bred to create a distinct type more than anything else... Lets face it, Breay was a showman, it was Frank Buck that really tested em.

Plummer made Cyril Breay out to be some sort of terrier genious and we've all bought into that, i just think he seen in Breay what he wanted for himself, a distinct line of terrier. And James Hinks had done it before them both...

[neil cooney 10,416]

I just think we all look too hard at it, bull blooded terriers have always been around, if one was an exceptional worker, why wouldn't Breay or anyone else give it a go. Didn't have to be direct bull blood. And a drop can alter the conformation of most terriers.

Not that i really have any clue but i've always wondered if Breay simply used this mysterious blood to improve the looks of his dogs as much as for working ability. He knew he had great workers through FB's dogs and bred to create a distinct type more than anything else... Lets face it, Breay was a showman, it was Frank Buck that really tested em.

Plummer made Cyril Breay out to be some sort of terrier genious and we've all bought into that, i just think he seen in Breay what he wanted for himself, a distinct line of terrier. And James Hinks had done it before them both...

[neil cooney 10,416]

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

[Dead Eyes 681]

 

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

I've always considered some labs to have a bull look about them. I doubt that it is actually in them though

 

Not even kidding

[Mixedgrill 704]

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

 

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

lol no bull in yours Neil is there ??

[Shovel shy 4,033]

There's a lot of bull in some lads yards. bull shit.

[dillydog 8,463]

We can go around and around, I'm quite sure it'll still be being argued about when we're all dead and buried.

Bull IMHO does NOTHING for a terrier that earns it's living under the sod, even if you had a one off that was small enough to get and clever enough to find and stay, why would you chance folding it back in to potentially ruin what you're already successfully digging to ?

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

lol no bull in yours Neil is there ??

 

There probably is. But it hasn't been put in by me or the lads who've had them before me as long as they've had them, or else I would have seen it the pedigrees they've entrusted me with.

That's one of the perks of dealing with good honest lads who trust me enough to give blood to.

 

How about you ?

 

But we've gone of the question I asked you and didn't answer.

The Labrador has a smooth coat, large teeth, a large head, the same ear and tail carriage as a lot of bulldogs so by your's and many others on here's way of thinking we must assume that the Lab is indeed a Bull terrier crossbred ?

 

So when was the bull blood introduced to the Labrador ?

[DogMan85 722]

 

 

 

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

lol no bull in yours Neil is there ??

There probably is. But it hasn't been put in by me or the lads who've had them before me as long as they've had them, or else I would have seen it the pedigrees they've entrusted me with.

That's one of the perks of dealing with good honest lads who trust me enough to give blood to.

 

How about you ?

 

But we've gone of the question I asked you and didn't answer.

The Labrador has a smooth coat, large teeth, a large head, the same ear and tail carriage as a lot of bulldogs so by your's and many others on here's way of thinking we must assume that the Lab is indeed a Bull terrier crossbred ?

 

So when was the bull blood introduced to the Labrador ?

Forget about the looks for a minute, there's one pretty major trait missing from a Lab that is prevalent in any decent Bull type.

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

I've always considered some labs to have a bull look about them. I doubt that it is actually in them though

 

Not even kidding

 

It has to be in them. The experts on here who know everyones breeding are telling us that if it looks bully then it's a bull mongeral.

Smooth coat, big head, it's a bull cross. The Lab even comes Buckskin, Black and Chocolate, it has to be a bull cross. Maybe the Chocolate is where the Chocolate came from in the black terriers.

Maybe old Fell breeders used a Chocolate Lab to introduce Bull back into their lines.

 

Or maybe, just maybe, over the years those who needed a small dog to go under ground to face a quarry who can retaliate that they ended up with a small dog with a big head and jaw because those qualities do help.

The same type of features a fighting dog has .

[Mixedgrill 704]

 

 

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

 

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

lol no bull in yours Neil is there ??

There probably is. But it hasn't been put in by me or the lads who've had them before me as long as they've had them, or else I would have seen it the pedigrees they've entrusted me with.

That's one of the perks of dealing with good honest lads who trust me enough to give blood to.

 

How about you ?

 

But we've gone of the question I asked you and didn't answer.

The Labrador has a smooth coat, large teeth, a large head, the same ear and tail carriage as a lot of bulldogs so by your's and many others on here's way of thinking we must assume that the Lab is indeed a Bull terrier crossbred ?

 

So when was the bull blood introduced to the Labrador ?

if I say yes or no you don't have the answer to this so what's your point ???

[Carlovian 592]

A friend who lived in Ballingarry co Tip, he had his terriers stolen , by some travelers , from Thurlas, after a few phone calls he managed to get his brood bitch back, but all the young dogs ware gone,,,his Lurchers and APBT belong to me ware all left alone,,, his bitch came into season soon after and he bred her to the APBT, and you could not tell they ware not full Patterdales , the APBT was very small dog 32lbs fit ,,, but he said all from the litter worked good,,, this is the little APBT he used,,,,

Edited April 19, 2017 by Carlovian

[DogMan85 722]

A friend who lived in Ballingarry co Tip, he had his terriers stolen , by some travelers , from Thurlas, after a few phone calls he managed to get his brood bitch back, but all the young dogs ware gone,,,his Lurchers and APBT belong to me ware all left alone,,, his bitch came into season soon after and he bred her to the APBT, and you could not tell they ware not full Patterdales , the APBT was very small dog 32lbs fit ,,, but he said all from the litter worked good,,, this is the little APBT he used,,,, ricky b's animal.jpg

What was the breeding behind it, nice little Bulldog. Have you any pics of the dogs off it?

[Shovel shy 4,033]

 

 

 

 

A lot of black dog's have plenty of bull in their make up you only have to look at some of them bull sticks out a mile

So with that way of thinking when in your opinion would you say bull blood was introduced to the labrador ?

I've always considered some labs to have a bull look about them. I doubt that it is actually in them though

 

Not even kidding

It has to be in them. The experts on here who know everyones breeding are telling us that if it looks bully then it's a bull mongeral.

Smooth coat, big head, it's a bull cross. The Lab even comes Buckskin, Black and Chocolate, it has to be a bull cross. Maybe the Chocolate is where the Chocolate came from in the black terriers.

Maybe old Fell breeders used a Chocolate Lab to introduce Bull back into their lines.

 

Or maybe, just maybe, over the years those who needed a small dog to go under ground to face a quarry who can retaliate that they ended up with a small dog with a big head and jaw because those qualities do help.

The same type of features a fighting dog has .

lad I was hunting with few times last season has a big ole lurcher dog. Very good at foxes from what I seen of him. I would have bet strong money he was a bull x but in actual fact it was a labrador x. You'd never no the difference.