Controversial !

[THE STIFFMEISTER 15,409]

My grandfather was from the Galloway coast and in those little scruffy port hamlets the big rangy farm types were called Paul's

 

For me, it was never a thing of wonder , they were just there whenever we went on holiday

[redquil 219]

Some old adverts in magazines from 1900s ,,that mention Blue polls,

rochester and caire.jpg

sporting entertainment.png

Cracking bit of history there mate. Do you know when the last dogs were taken over there ? I believe Joe Mallon used to send dogs over there. Do any of you boys know when the last ones were?

[tinytiger 822]

Some old adverts in magazines from 1900s ,,that mention Blue polls,

rochester and caire.jpg

sporting entertainment.png

was skyball bred off(did he go into the makeup of the breed.?

[tinytiger 822]

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)30456-4

 

Interesting study-lot of bull in the irish terrier breeds

[VOON 1,317]

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)30456-4

Interesting study-lot of bull in the irish terrier breeds

Can you explain that in plain English or Irish, looks interesting but way over my head John??

[tinytiger 822]

Borders,bedlingtons,fox terriers one family..norfolk yorkies another,irish terrier breeds another.its confusing the way they have it laid out allright.

[tinytiger 822]

 

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)30456-4

Interesting study-lot of bull in the irish terrier breeds

Can you explain that in plain English or Irish, looks interesting but way over my head John??

 

Around 12.40 in this.

[Bolero 67]

On 18/04/2017 at 16:06, DogMan85 said:

I wish I was around back then to try and find what really went on back then. The story of Terriers being crossed with the Bulldog to create a superior fighting dog doesn't quite add up to me but there's that much evidence to support it it must be true.

Old post I know. But I’m curious what doesn’t add up when it comes to various working terriers being crossed with the original bulldog. Everyone gets way to caught up in it being a 50/50 cross only based on what has been wrote about the bull and terrier crosses I have no doubt that the percentage of bulldog and terrier varied from breeder to breeder based on personal preferences when studying those dogs and seeing pictures it’s pretty clear that terriers were definitely crossed in. There are pit dogs that range on weight from as small as15-19 Lbs up to 75-80 Lbs. Now the majority of the dogs were on average between 30-43 Lbs roughly. You can look at some of the dogs that Colby bought from the Dogmen from England and Ireland and see very clearly the terrier influence in some of his dogs. Look at Galtie he was about 16 Lbs and looked very much terrier  then dogs like Turk and a few others could pass for all terrier without any bulldog at all

[Bolero 67]

On 18/04/2017 at 16:09, p3d said:

 

DogMan85,

Unfortunately not everyone sees it that way.

 

It is easy for some to accept that Bull blood was added "a hundred years ago" but not to accept that it was added 30 years ago.

It offends some terriermen to believe that "their line" has bull blood in it, even when its plain to see the bull influence in the dogs.

So a "Blue Poll" might be acceptable but a Staff or EBT is out of the question. What a load of cobblers.

 

IMHO it is not a bad mark against a working terrier strain if bull blood is evident, if that is what the breeder wants to do.

But some guys are afraid to admit it. (even some of the big names are prone to this)

you could point at a dog and ask the owner "how was the bull blood added to your terrier" to get the answer "there is no bull blood in my dog"

 

What has always held my interest was HOW a breeder did it.

Some breeders have the knowledge to breed in what they want from the bull type AND keep the size down.

That to me is what men like Breay and Nuttall did well. each had there own method but each was successful in what they wanted to do.

But that is just my opinion and there are many others.

If we want to get technical bull blood was added to most working terriers. There are documents stating that bull blood was used in the jack Russell terrier before type was fixed then they were just bred back to the jack Russell side until the the bulldog structure didn’t have a negative effect on there ability to go to ground. According to some authors a cross between the bulldog and the whippet was the foundation for the Black and Tan terrier used in the rat pit

[Bolero 67]

On 19/04/2017 at 08:59, DogMan85 said:

And another million dollar question is if the Old English Bulldog was as game as they say it was then why did they cross it with Terriers to create the dog that went on to be the APBT?

 

I don't believe the general consensus that the Bulldog was too slow and ponderous for fighting, how the hell can a dog that works Bulls be slow and ponderous? Maybe the working Terriers have been game all along because you wouldn't cross a Gamedog with a cur to create a fighting animal.

The whole to slow and clumsy thing was only said by those who wrote about dogs but never worked any. The cross was made due to the bulldogs style of fighting as in when they take hold they stay there and that’s it. Let’s be honest the pit dog men while they definitely valued a game dog and knew a game one always had the chance to win. But who doesn’t want to see a fight that is entertaining. A fight where both dogs take hold and just push each other back and forth an d. It much else is pretty boring. The terrier cross gave the dog what dog men call Finish. Which is the desire to permanently end there opponent AKA kill them.  And the terrier influence gave it more work ethic as far as always trying to gain and advantage. If a better note effective hold was there for them to take they would along with trying to have the better position as far as leverage is concerned. In a dog fight ideally y pup want a dog who is always trying to win and is either in hold or doing anything they can th get a hold. The busier a they are along with intensity the better chances they have 

[Bolero 67]

On 19/04/2017 at 18:02, rippem said:

The blue probably came from the garner blood then. Like i said im friend's of the man and never seen a blue dog on his property and he wouldnt allow one on his property. And the bottom half of that ped was someon elses so who knows what they put in it. If you didnt see MR BOUDREAUX do the breeding and see him whelping it and then seeing blue dogs or hearing it from him dont believe it. Because then your just spreading 2nd hand crap. Amd dogman, the same thing goes for you and the grapevine. Not trying to be dick but but dont go off what you heard if you dont have or owned any of that blood. It makes it 2nd hand gossip. But i guess the most folks are like,if the lies are told long enough and enough folks believe it then it must be true. And i didnt have a yard of his dogs for no reason. I dont feed crap.

I have all the respect in the world for Floyd. But he’s a man just like any other and no man is perfect. If you think Floyd wouldn’t lie to you because most likely he could care less whether you believe him or not. It’s not going to effect him in any way. There’s is more than enough proof through written history along with actual conversations with dog men who had plenty of influence on the dogs who were the foundation of the various bloodlines from the very beginning. Look at some of the dogs owned by Lightner and you can not only read but also see the dogs he had that were blue blue is simply a dilution of black. When being bred for performance not looks or color and Blue not being a dominant color and seeing as most pit dogs don’t prove game when being truly tested by an honest man who absolutely wants to what he is feeding will result in most of the dogs that were blue were very likely culled and not bred from. Blue being particularly rear color and a truly game dog also being rare means very few were worth breeding 

[Aussie Whip 4,031]

I have a really old book called "The Dog" and it was generally thought terriers were derived from bulldog/mastiff types crossed to hounds such as beagles. It seems unlikely but who knows, they had to start somewhere. It wouldn't take many generations to get the size down.

[Bolero 67]

On 23/04/2017 at 13:42, rippem said:

On 23/04/2017 at 11:50, tinytiger said:

Like i said before-heard of greyhounds throwing 1 or 2 blues in a hundred litters-others might produce them every litter.your bitch may not be carrying it(50/50 chance).

i didnt have 1 or 2 of his dogs. I had a yard of his dogs. And why doesnt he have any on his yard and why when asked he says no he doesnt produce blue's? Are you saying he is a liar? And look at that ped on that dog, is Mr Boudreaux the breeder? It didn't come from the man so who is to say were that color came from? And on the bottem half of the ped was someone else's dog so who is to say some moron didnt put the blue in there? It's a commen thing here for the blacks or ghetto fucks to do that and false the paper's

Honestly if you don’t understand that you could breed half brother and sister off of Skull bred to different females for the next 10 plus years and a dog being blue is very unlikely and they still doesn’t mean that the Boudreaux bloodline can’t produce a blue dog. And I can tell just from y pit t posts most of your knowledge definitely came from book reading and not hands on experience no offense. Like I said I think Floyd is one of if not the best breeders in history. But he has hung pedigrees on dogs as few dogs just like most have. Sorry to tell you that not everything Floyd says is Gospel lol

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Just a normal peddler then .

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Bolero wouldn’t be ABC by any chance lol.