i need some

[Guest bitsa lurcher]

My mistake bitsa lurcher

 

All joking aside I really dont understand the animosity some people who post on here have towards minshaw bred lurchers. Even going to such lengths to make up alias usernames and post its quite sad and childish really.

 

 

i persoally have nothing against any kind/type of breed , just don't understand the logic of a secret x breed .............. each to his own at the end of the day

[Guest joe ox]

Bitsa lurcher there is no secret I just dont think anyone is EXACTLY sure whats in MINSHAW lurchers. Some sort of bull terrier,whippet,collie and greyhound are in there Iam not sure what or if any other breeds are in the mix. The line breeding was the key to consistency of the dogs IMO.

Edited December 18, 2007 by joe ox

[Guest bitsa lurcher]

Bitsa lurcher there is no secret I just dont think anyone is EXACTLY sure whats in MINSHAW lurchers. Some sort of bull terrier,whippet,collie and greyhound are in there Iam not sure what or if any other breeds are in the mix. The line breeding was the key to consistency of the dogs IMO.

 

fair comment .

[Guest SJM]

Do you think the inbreeding/linebreeding is increasing the problems which exist within the strain? namely epileptic fits, dogs dropping down dead, bitches unable to mate and whelp naturally, small litter sizes etc, all of which could easily be signs of "inbreeding depression" which is natures way of telling when new blood is needed?

[Guest bitsa lurcher]

Do you think the inbreeding/linebreeding is increasing the problems which exist within the strain? namely epileptic fits, dogs dropping down dead, bitches unable to mate and whelp naturally, small litter sizes etc, all of which could easily be signs of "inbreeding depression" which is natures way of telling when new blood is needed?

 

good point you have there sjm , i'm no genitics proffesser , but my own common sense tells me that line breeding the same line over and over is not a good move ..... how long has minshaw been line breeding for / or how long has the line been kept consistant

[Guest joe ox]

Line or inbreeding which is the same thing basicly, does carry problems and risks. A few of which have surfaced in the minshaw line as pointed out by SJM. Pedigree dog breeders have been inbreeding for hundreds of years, thats where the term line breeding came from if Iam not mistaken. The minshaw line has been going for around 30 year give or take.

Edited December 18, 2007 by joe ox

[Guest bigredbusa]

so why are they dropping dead then ?

[Guest bitsa lurcher]

is it wise to assume then joe that an outcross is a good idea for the minshaw line , given that a few problems have cropped up

[Guest joe ox]

Bitsa lurcher there has been outside blood introduced over the years.

[Guest bitsa lurcher]

Bitsa lurcher there has been outside blood introduced over the years.

 

 

has that cured any of the problems that have cropped up ....... sorry for all the questions i am genuinley interested

[Guest SJM]

What inbreeding does is show up resessive genes which are lurking, and it alligns the genes in a different way so that you could end up with all the worst characteristics and all the best, in the same litter. It does not produce anything which isnt allready there, but it can amplify it, good as well as bad.

Linebreeding is just a diluted version of inbreeding so the same faults etc are still there, it just takes longer to see any faults that are there, and the effects are not quite so dramatic.

Genetics fascinate me, I once read a study about domesticated fur farm foxes and when the scientists bred them over many generations, tamest to tamest, they noticed that many other things started to happen to the foxes. Their colouration started to change, their ears drooped, they wagged their tails and made more dog than fox like noises, and many other wierd and wonderful things. Just goes to show that by selecting breeding stock purely on one characteristic ie tameness and willingness to interact with humans, they got many other traits they never expected to.

So I guess the price of the famous minshaw stamina may be that the particular gene or group of genes which causes it, also carries unwanted, and negative side effects This is very sad, but its the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, all lines carry faults to some degree or other, some faults you can live with, others are more serious. Im no geneticist myself, but I would say that the course of time has proven faults to be there so the best thing would be to introduce another tightly knit family of dogs, also known for their stamina and this in turn will add fresh blood, then the minshaw blood could be added back in again in the future. This is similar to what pitbull breeders do they inbreed on good dogs several times, then outcross to a similarly tightly bred dog from another family, so that you are aiming to get the best of the "fixed" genes from both families, combined with the fresh blood and its resultant effects, hybrid vigour whatever you want to call it.

Its hard to explain but I hope that makes sense

[cúagusgiorraí 57]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tame_Silver_Fox

 

 

[Guest joe ox]

Bitsa lurcher, I hope so but only time will tell The problems what have been mentioned only effected a few of the dogs not all of them. Who can say they have bred dogs and NEVER had any problems?

[Guest SJM]

Thanks C I have read that article several times and never thought to google for pics, they really are beautiful Is there any more pics?

[Guest SJM]

haha little do they know that what really happened was I was approached some years ago via my CMW articles by a hard up russian scientist who agreed to pay me good money for the use of my old collie/greyhounds sperm