Trump Under Fire

[Born Hunter 17,763]

Just now, Francie said:

America is a constitutional Republic is it not?

Democracy leads to  the 51 Vs the49,there's always a split in democracy.

Yes and Republicanism is a form of democracy. 

[chartpolski 23,373]

America could be said to be more democratic than the U K, in as much as they are both supposed to be "representative democracies". The people voting for politicians to represent them.

In America, both houses of the senate and congress are voted in by the people, but in the UK, only the lower chamber, the House of Commons is voted in by the people to represent them, but the upper chamber, the House of Lords is unelected, made up of the remnants of the aristocracy and political appointments. So, as long as the House of Lords, and indeed the Queen, are allowed to delay, obstruct and amend proposed changes to the law or new laws, the UK can't be a true democracy in the most stringent definition of the word.

Cheers.

Edited November 27, 2020 by chartpolski

[Francie 6,368]

35 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Yes and Republicanism is a form of democracy. 

Thanks born.

Is it?

How so?

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

42 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

We agree that upholding the democratic system is crucial. I'd just like to know what is considered a satisfactory level of due process to those who believe the election, and so democracy, was cheated? I'd like to know that if this goes to SCOTUS, or if one side jacks before then, will the result be accepted as the democratic will of the people?

I fully expect Democrats to not accept a SCOTUS ruling that would result in Trump's victory but I'd like to know if those behind Trump would accept a contrary ruling? And if not what process would they accept as fair?

All will revealed soon

Who ever is the winner following election rules is fine by me. I prefer one candidate over the other, only because of what they represent to a degree and more importantly who their enemies are.

History repeats itself in so many ways as the saying goes, however history is also made as time goes by. 

In my opinion things are reaching a saturation point where something will give. It is already. 2020 has been some year. 

Did anyone actually think this year was going to be otherwise? It's easy to say that with hindsight, but with monumental politics both in Europe, Brexit here in 2016 and the USA in 2016 also, it was only going to be turned up ten fold when this year came round. 

Be interesting to see what unfolds...

[Francie 6,368]

I just read there born,that a republic is a form government,an democracy is an ideology that helps shape the way it's run?

[Born Hunter 17,763]

8 minutes ago, Francie said:

I just read there born,that a republic is a form government,an democracy is an ideology that helps shape the way it's run?

I dare say that was written by a republican who is trying to explain why democrats are the antichrist? I’ve heard it all before.

If you have fair elections then you live in a democracy.

[green lurchers 16,628]

Aussies get more news than Americans lol 

MSM Biden goes goes ice fishing and drowns. “ Biden walks on water “ trump sinks 50ytd Putt on golf course “ Russian aided remote control ball “ lol 

Edited November 27, 2020 by green lurchers

[Francie 6,368]

39 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I dare say that was written by a republican who is trying to explain why democrats are the antichrist? I’ve heard it all before.

If you have fair elections then you live in a democracy.

Haha I just googled it,thought it was out of Wikipedia

[Francie 6,368]

The war machine is back,the last 30secs sums up the democrat voters.

 

[Nik_B 3,790]

2 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

All will revealed soon

Who ever is the winner following election rules is fine by me. I prefer one candidate over the other, only because of what they represent to a degree and more importantly who their enemies are.

History repeats itself in so many ways as the saying goes, however history is also made as time goes by. 

In my opinion things are reaching a saturation point where something will give. It is already. 2020 has been some year. 

Did anyone actually think this year was going to be otherwise? It's easy to say that with hindsight, but with monumental politics both in Europe, Brexit here in 2016 and the USA in 2016 also, it was only going to be turned up ten fold when this year came round. 

Be interesting to see what unfolds...

Right, there would be no point moaning about it for the next four years like some people did it would be a done deal regardless of whether we felt it was legitimate or not.

I believe we should either know on the 14th or around the 28th if it ends up going to the house and I'll accept that result and lose a few quid in the process lol.

What you said about 2020 is so spot on though, things have been getting gradually crazier as each year has gone by especially since 2016 and there were signs of problems to come last year. So many things have happened and we just forget and move on to the next crisis. The yellow vests in France would be one example.

I do think we are living in very turbulent times and that this will continue for a few years until some kind of equilibrium is reached.

I already said it but for Chris and Co but I'm just waiting for when it's official and that result is the result period.

[Nik_B 3,790]

But I still think Trump will be the pres next year

[ChrisJones 7,975]

5 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

Surely it's about democracy?

I'm trying to establish some goal posts. I want to know what is considered a satisfactory level of due process or is it a case of no matter what if Biden wins then it was fraud?

Having watched it play out in real time, over here, I believe democracy is alive and well in 2020. Prior to 2016 apathy was rife and that election kicked it in the arse. This has been no different. The noise generated has been interesting to see as a third party. THL only reflects half of this but the other side have been just as vociferous and their rhetoric has been the equal and opposite reaction, IMO.

Despite the allegations of this massive conspiracy every single legal challenge so far has fallen flat. The divide between both sides has been enormous this cycle but the common ground has been the system itself. Simply put, it worked. There has been a huge interest in it having it run smoothly and efficiently. Covid pushed the boundaries and the urgency has seen it play out surprisingly smoothly. The traditionally huge waiting lines in some parishes just simply didn't happen, given the enormity of the challenge, hours were turned into mere minutes. IMO, we're probably watching the start of the new norm.

The due process has been textbook and the results are based on the presented evidence, so far. I'm simply not seeing this massive conspiracy that's being parroted by the Trump team and the legal avenues, so far at least, are playing that out. That has been sufficient from where I'm sat.

Regardless of the result I believe the system has passed the test. The quality of the candidates, on the other hand, is reflective of the sheer amount of money available to a failed duopoly. I respected the result in 2016 and I will again in 2020 despite the embarrassing puppet show that's playing out before us.

[Nik_B 3,790]

2 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

Having watched it play out in real time, over here, I believe democracy is alive and well in 2020. Prior to 2016 apathy was rife and that election kicked it in the arse. This has been no different. The noise generated has been interesting to see as a third party. THL only reflects half of this but the other side have been just as vociferous and their rhetoric has been the equal and opposite reaction, IMO.

Despite the allegations of this massive conspiracy every single legal challenge so far has fallen flat. The divide between both sides has been enormous this cycle but the common ground has been the system itself. Simply put, it worked. There has been a huge interest in it having it run smoothly and efficiently. Covid pushed the boundaries and the urgency has seen it play out surprisingly smoothly. The traditionally huge waiting lines in some parishes just simply didn't happen, given the enormity of the challenge, hours were turned into mere minutes. IMO, we're probably watching the start of the new norm.

The due process has been textbook and the results are based on the presented evidence, so far. I'm simply not seeing this massive conspiracy that's being parroted by the Trump team and the legal avenues, so far at least, are playing that out. That has been sufficient from where I'm sat.

Regardless of the result I believe the system has passed the test. The quality of the candidates, on the other hand, is reflective of the sheer amount of money available to a failed duopoly. I respected the result in 2016 and I will again in 2020 despite the embarrassing puppet show that's playing out before us.

The system will pass it's test, the constitution looks like it was very well thought out and it's quite amazing to see it still work today.

The voting system especially machines and mail in ballots does need to be sorted out and that isn't a partisan thing to say. The media have been running stories about it for years and even Elizabeth Warren has made comments about the machines. Mail in voting should be restricted to a small percentage of the population who are unable to vote...that is how it used to be and now it's been abused.

I used to have a list of British MPs who had the highest percent of mail votes but I can't find it. I'm sure David Miliband was the top one and the figure was ridiculous.

[Born Hunter 17,763]

Agree that the founding fathers seemed to have great insight. The constitution seems very robust which is remarkable really.

[Born Hunter 17,763]

2 minutes ago, Balaur said:

What do you think they'd have made of America today, I'd imagine they'd be arming themselves in order to rid America of its blatant corruption within politics and business, globalisation and monopolies. At least with the romans a nutty emperor came along now and again and culled the senate....

I think the tea would have been in the harbour years ago!