Trump Under Fire

[Nik_B 3,790]

13 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

You reckon mate? Looking at the tightening of the house and senate, which has defied the 'blue wave' prediction, I'd go with the indication that America has voted to rebuke progressive socialist policies in the US.

Socialism has been the under reported loser in this election cycle. Good!

I agree on this and also an earlier comment that you made about throwing enough mud until something sticks which is what the Democrats have also done over the last 4 years and you know what? I think it could work.

Even Alan Dershowitz has explained that there is even a way that Trump wins just by denying Biden the 270 electoral college votes rather than actually winning them.

[Nik_B 3,790]

2 minutes ago, baker boy said:

I admire your conviction mate, Biden I think will be a disaster for the US

and you can say goodbye to Brexit as well.

I obviously do like Trump but not so much that I want to be remembered by my family and friends as some sort of obsessive nut job who ended up being wrong.

I just like being right about the things I research just like I like being right at work, any failure would be extremely painful lol

[Meece 1,957]

No doubt in a month or so when the dust has settled when all of the electors have cast their votes at the electoral college and the system goes into drive that the trump hangers on will be left behind like driftwood stranded on a beach when the tide goes out.  There will still be all of the die-hard conspirisits still going on about a stolen election and fake this and that. But time and tide move on.  Trump won't stand again because he would fear loosing again. Four years is a long time and the world could be a tottaly different place. Covid might have accounted for all of us by then.

[Nik_B 3,790]

Chicks with dicks running the US military

[ChrisJones 7,975]

20 minutes ago, Nik_B said:

I agree on this and also an earlier comment that you made about throwing enough mud until something sticks which is what the Democrats have also done over the last 4 years and you know what? I think it could work.

Even Alan Dershowitz has explained that there is even a way that Trump wins just by denying Biden the 270 electoral college votes rather than actually winning them.

To your first point. They've all being throwing shit for several decades and as an American voter I honestly feel qualified to say that we're sick of both them. This bullshit has to stop whether we support either side, or neither if you're me!

To the second. If Trump actually tried to appoint a system that would usurp the democratic process would you still have any respect for him at all? That's would be a real authoritarian dictator move right there.

16 minutes ago, baker boy said:

I admire your conviction mate, Biden I think will be a disaster for the US

When Don was elected in 2016 he had the house, the senate, and the presidency. He squandered it. Did absolutely nothing with all of that power, when he could've pushed through pretty much anything he wanted.

At the current viewing Biden won't have anything close to that power stepping in and a lot of his big ticket promises just won't be able to pass a Republican held senate. This is actually a good thing and bolsters what I said, in the previous post, about America rebuking socialism.

The problem, as I see it, as when this happens their strategies change to work the system. To voters who only engage the process in the national election cycle they are usually well behind the curve. A gridlocked house should see more bipartisanship and compromise but with the vitriol attached to the last 4 years the American voter shouldn't be resting easy. There is a big authoritarian agenda in play here. You're watching it play out with coronavirus restrictions in the UK. That's exactly the kind of shit they want to pull here. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and if both sides are arguing over nonsense the big picture will be ignored until it might be too late. Victory is temporary defeat is eternal. Don's starting to figure that and I'm hoping he's quietly reflecting on the opportunity he's just wasted.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ChrisJones
Typo

[ChrisJones 7,975]

11 minutes ago, Meece said:

Trump won't stand again because he would fear loosing again.

I agree with your post, mate, but this quote I'd like to comment on, if I may?

I don't believe that Trump reckons he lost. He believes it was taken from him by conspiracy. He's never wrong and is trying to process why America might turn against him. I do believe he could run again in 2024 but that would hinge entirely on his financial backers and not on his concept of losing. I don't believe he's aware of that concept.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

7 minutes ago, baker boy said:

I like Trump as well especially because of the way he turned politics on its head in the states, something they cant have and will never forgive him for

Mate that is one of the top posts on this thread. IMHO. The system supports the system, exclusively, and Don rocked that entire foundation. I wish they'd learn that but I reckon they're more concerned with shoring up the establishment than conceding that Joe Public is sick to f*ck*ng death of them.

We pay for these people to govern our affairs not to rule over us with their granted authority.

[Nik_B 3,790]

1 minute ago, ChrisJones said:

To your first point. They've all being throwing shit for several decades and as an American voter I honestly feel qualified to say that we're sick of both them. This bullshit has to stop whether we support either side, or neither if you're me!

To the second. If Trump actually tried to appoint a system that would usurp the democratic process would you still have any respect for him at all? That's would be a real authoritarian dictator move right there.

 

Firstly you are an American Voter, I am not but I work for American oil and gas companies operating in the US but I do it from home so I'm very invested. Biden and Co have threatened the US Shale industry repeatedly, that would destroy my business and my families life forever.

Can you read this? I have run out of 'free' views. He's a scholar in the constitution and shows one path Trump can still win by denying Biden his 270 electoral votes.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/alan-dershowitz-constitution-270-electoral-college/2020/11/14/id/997053/

I don't think it will come down to that but what I do expect is 3 weeks of legal battles and maybe a Trump win at the end but what will happen next is some kind of investigation into the software and China gets all the blame (rightly or wrongly...don't really care).

Oh and Trump will end up getting called a dictator....you have that right.

 

[Nik_B 3,790]

2 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

Mate that is one of the top posts on this thread. IMHO. The system supports the system, exclusively, and Don rocked that entire foundation. I wish they'd learn that but I reckon they're more concerned with shoring up the establishment than conceding that Joe Public is sick to f*ck*ng death of them.

We pay for these people to govern our affairs not to rule over us with their granted authority.

Shame there was no alternative parties that could challenge them though...I know you are a libertarian and you have probably forgotten but I used to describe myself the same way but it was a lost cause sadly. UKIP and Farage used to do that...look where it got them.

[Nik_B 3,790]

13 minutes ago, baker boy said:

I hope thats a joke..

I never joke when it comes to trannies running the military.

It's real lol

[Nik_B 3,790]

15 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

The problem, as I see it, as when this happens their strategies change to work the system. To voters who only engage the process in the national election cycle they are usually well behind the curve. A gridlocked house should see more bipartisanship and compromise but with the vitriol attached to the last 4 years the American voter shouldn't be resting easy. There is a big authoritarian agenda in play here. You're watching it play out with coronavirus restrictions in the UK. That's exactly the kind of shit they want to pull here. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and if both sides are arguing over nonsense the big picture will be ignored until it might be too late. Victory is temporary defeat is eternal. Don's starting to figure that and I'm hoping he's quietly reflecting on the opportunity he's just wasted.

I have little to disagree with here, were you against the lockdown?

I was and still am

[ChrisJones 7,975]

7 minutes ago, Nik_B said:

Firstly you are an American Voter, I am not but I work for American oil and gas companies operating in the US but I do it from home so I'm very invested. Biden and Co have threatened the US Shale industry repeatedly, that would destroy my business and my families life forever.

I understand that, mate, but Biden and Co threaten the very constitutional rights and foundation of liberty in this country. I don't want either to of us to lose out. It's not me versus you it's us versus them. This is why I've repeatedly posted to the point that we cannot in good faith support this duopoly. This election result does not give Biden much to work with in your regard and this is why I'm explaining why it's America's duty not to take their eye off the ball for 2022 and again into 2024.

11 minutes ago, Nik_B said:

Can you read this? I have run out of 'free' views. He's a scholar in the constitution and shows one path Trump can still win by denying Biden his 270 electoral votes.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/alan-dershowitz-constitution-270-electoral-college/2020/11/14/id/997053/

I can't unfortunately, but I was referring to the option circulating in the authoritarian circles of replacing presidential electors, in key swing states, with players more sympathetic to Trumpism. This is a violation of federal law but if you've even the slimmest of interest in American politics you'd know that breaking the law is more akin to using it as guidelines rather than actual rules.

I fully understand that it's mathematically possible but to update my England Vs San Marino analogy... England are now 9-0 up and there is still one minute of normal time left to play. The referee still hasn't indicated how much time will be added on. It's still mathematically possible that San Marino can win.

 

[ChrisJones 7,975]

16 minutes ago, Nik_B said:

Shame there was no alternative parties that could challenge them though...I know you are a libertarian and you have probably forgotten but I used to describe myself the same way but it was a lost cause sadly. UKIP and Farage used to do that...look where it got them.

Agreed but America was never envisioned as being run by parties. The founders feared that. The duopoly has only been able to exist because of the apathy of the electorate, IMHO. The same nation that went to war of a 3% voluntary tax on tea that now pays through the nose while taking it in the arse.

Like many on here I stick it my values. I am libertarian and I vote based on those that most closely align with my world-view, as do most. I have not, and never will, vote tactically based on the wasted vote fallacy. I could not in good faith vote for a candidate that wishes to erode constitutionally protected rights for the greater good. Ever. If that means if my guy (or gal this time around) get only one vote then so be it. Right Vs Wrong not Win Vs Lose. Look how Bernie has been treated... love him or hate him he's banged the same consistent message since before most of supporters were born.

19 minutes ago, Nik_B said:

I have little to disagree with here, were you against the lockdown?

I was and still am

Yes. Always. Forever.

Rights trump security every time. (See what I did there? )

[Nik_B 3,790]

2 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

I understand that, mate, but Biden and Co threaten the very constitutional rights and foundation of liberty in this country. I don't want either to of us to lose out. It's not me versus you it's us versus them. This is why I've repeatedly posted to the point that we cannot in good faith support this duopoly. This election result does not give Biden much to work with in your regard and this is why I'm explaining why it's America's duty not to take their eye off the ball for 2022 and again into 2024.

I can't unfortunately, but I was referring to the option circulating in the authoritarian circles of replacing presidential electors, in key swing states, with players more sympathetic to Trumpism. This is a violation of federal law but if you've even the slimmest of interest in American politics you'd know that breaking the law is more akin to using it as guidelines rather than actual rules.

I fully understand that it's mathematically possible but to update my England Vs San Marino analogy... England are now 9-0 up and there is still one minute of normal time left to play. The referee still hasn't indicated how much time will be added on. It's still mathematically possible that San Marino can win.

 

Agree on the first paragraph but this is the world we're in and I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

You can listen to Dershowitz's opinions here and I think he will clarify it here

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dershow/id1531775772#episodeGuid=gid%3A%2F%2Fart19-episode-locator%2FV0%2F2lwLQg_D3ALTGxx6IiFO2pnhQ8er8aPgDU3uXFqyofY

On the third point...I'm not a gambler but I'm extremely good at looking at trends, analyzing data and making forward predictions (modelling) and while that's related to geology and drilling I've applied the same logic to other things and often been right. This will be very interesting regardless what happens. I am interested in US politics although I've always been more interested in geopolitics rather than domestic politics. I still think Trump will be the pres and I expect it will cause absolute horror across the world.

[Nik_B 3,790]

7 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

Yes. Always. Forever.

Rights trump security every time. (See what I did there? )

Well that's really something! Actually didn't expect that.

We will always have common ground even after Trump wins   he he