Jonjon79 13,358 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Joe your whole argument for Indepenance rests upon the notion Europe will welcome an independent Scotland with open arms. Question: would you till seek Indepenance if EU membership was off the table, yes or no? Joe? Joe? I believe there are options to be in the single market and not part of the eu, EEA??? Yes Joe? That's what my parents thought all those years ago Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Neither sturgeon nor joe any other nationlist has answered the elephant in the room. you claim to want an independent scotland and be able to make you're own decisions.You claim the only way to achieve this is to break away from the union. However in the next breath you want to join the EU. In fact this is the crux of you're indy2. Makes no sense and is hypocrisy of te highest order. It only just proves to me they are an English hating party. we do more trade with our friends over the border than the EU. oh and sturgeon standing on the platform today addressing immigrants, and i quote. "Scotlands not full. If you want to come here you be welcome "! and you fuckers have the gall to brand no voters traitors. Well all i can say is let them f***ing live next door to you SNP voters and keep the b*****ds away from me! no they will be housed in already run down jobless areas causing more divisions and anomosity. Picking up benefits and draining an already crippled NHS. Oh and they wont integrate will stick to there own kind speaking thete own language. Tell me what possible good are they to scotland! Ill tell you just more voters to keep sturgeon in power! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe1888 672 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Neither sturgeon nor joe any other nationlist has answered the elephant in the room. you claim to want an independent scotland and be able to make you're own decisions.You claim the only way to achieve this is to break away from the union. However in the next breath you want to join the EU. In fact this is the crux of you're indy2. Makes no sense and is hypocrisy of te highest order. It only just proves to me they are an English hating party. we do more trade with our friends over the border than the EU. oh and sturgeon standing on the platform today addressing immigrants, and i quote. "Scotlands not full. If you want to come here you be welcome "! and you fuckers have the gall to brand no voters traitors. Well all i can say is let them f***ing live next door to you SNP voters and keep the b*****ds away from me! no they will be housed in already run down jobless areas causing more divisions and anomosity. Picking up benefits and draining an already crippled NHS. Oh and they wont integrate will stick to there own kind speaking thete own language. Tell me what possible good are they to scotland! Ill tell you just more voters to keep sturgeon in power! We wouldnt be goverend by the eu, we could make different choices What are you saying scot, if we vote yes we risk trade with the rest of the uk? once artice 50 has been signed off the uk has two years to agree a trade deal with the rest of the eu. If it doesnt, it will have to trade anyway under WTO, the experts reckon that would be a very bad outcome?? one way or another the uk will trade with the eu, it will just be better terms for the eu, an independent scotland would be in the eu ( awaits the oh no youll not replys ) and therefore will continue with the rest of the uk as a eu member and would mostly likely get preferential terms.. the uk sells more to scotland than it buys, with all the trouble comming from brexit, the uk isnt going to cut off its noise to spite its face?? Ive no problem with immigrants, some of the hardest working, nicest people ive met, lets not forget our hospitals, schools, doctors surgerys etc etc would be closed without them, they contribute more in taxes that they claim.. Cant tar everyone with the same brush mate, ive called no one traitors, theres always that small number of people on both sides Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Neither sturgeon nor joe any other nationlist has answered the elephant in the room. you claim to want an independent scotland and be able to make you're own decisions.You claim the only way to achieve this is to break away from the union. However in the next breath you want to join the EU. In fact this is the crux of you're indy2. Makes no sense and is hypocrisy of te highest order. It only just proves to me they are an English hating party. we do more trade with our friends over the border than the EU. oh and sturgeon standing on the platform today addressing immigrants, and i quote. "Scotlands not full. If you want to come here you be welcome "! and you fuckers have the gall to brand no voters traitors. Well all i can say is let them f***ing live next door to you SNP voters and keep the b*****ds away from me! no they will be housed in already run down jobless areas causing more divisions and anomosity. Picking up benefits and draining an already crippled NHS. Oh and they wont integrate will stick to there own kind speaking thete own language. Tell me what possible good are they to scotland! Ill tell you just more voters to keep sturgeon in power! Is that what she says the wee cow. This is main reason I'm voting No this time...? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,245 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Well, I woke up this morning and have been listening all about the subject on radio 4, various bollocks from both sides. Now I have always maintained I want Scotland to remain part of the UK and I still feel that really BUT it occurred to me, it don't really matter a f**k to me any more as I don't live in the U.K. And then I thought something else, if we have had a vote on our independence as the UK it's a bit rich to then try and deny Scotland the same, in reality you can't with anything like a straight face. And what's more, in this time of major political changes (which I think is long overdue in the west) a smaller, poorer country may not actually be the disaster everyone talks about (for Scotland or England).......I think too much stock is put on GDP as a measure of happiness when it fact it seems that as GDP gets bigger people's actual life gets worse. Maybe a poorer country would be less populated by those who come to exploit the financial opportunities, a smaller country should in theory be a friendlier place to live. Maybe getting back to a simpler, poorer time is exactly what we need ? So, maybe it's worth throwing all the cards in the air and seeing how they fall because what the UK has at the moment is shit in many people's eyes. It is shit. Draw any comparison you like between the UK and comparable countries and you will see exactly how UK politicians, (in particular the tories) have nothing but contempt for we 'little' people. Pensions, way behind Spain, Germany and almost anywhere in Europe. Health service spending way behind Germany, France and and almost anywhere in Europe. Education spending way behind. Affordable social housing way behind. Job security a joke. Try offering zero hours contracts to a frenchman or a german! Infrastructure spending non existent. Why? Because of the entrenched class system in this country. There are very few countries in the world where there is so much class segregation as the UK. The tories pass laws to suit their well heeled buddies and the multinationals. We, the working class have nobody to fight for us. In the past we had the unions and the Labour Party. Now we are screwed . I think the quality of life has deteriorated for everybody in the UK over the decades. The average family now has both parents working 24/7 just to pay an exorbitant rent and keep shoes on the kids' feet. I think people voted for Brexit thinking they would at least be governed by brits and there would be less immigrants competing for jobs and housing. But in my view the people doing the governing in this country are the real enemy, not the Brussels bureacrats. The level of immigration will continue as long as there are shit jobs for them to fill. They will simply let them in with visas. They will still need to live somewhere so there will still be pressure on housing which will continue to put up rents. The tories don't care about the NHS or schools or crime ridden areas. They have private health care, private education and live well away from cities and housing estates where crime is common.I think eventually there will be change, because things are becoming intolerable for ordinary people. What a load of rubbish Actually, I think huge chunks of that post are spot on ! While I don't personally agree about the NHS and pensions as in my opinion the more you ask government to do the less free you are, I do agree with the points about how people are having to work their bollocks off to stand still while their money is used to engineer society to suit the big corporations that finance the very politicians that make the rules. And it is also clear that a bloke who approaches things from a socialist point of view can see that labour and the unions are every bit as bad as the torys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,245 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Experts say this and experts say that.......what everyone has to ask themselves is not what the experts say but who is funding these experts? Think I have a tin hat?........check out what firms pay the professors at Harvard business school a shit load of money every year on the side 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 You're f***ing deluded joe. Sturgeon certainly isnt giving off the best vibes towards a platonic relationship with the rest of the UK.did you listen to that skank mhari black today? hard working lol well i guess shoplifting and hanging around dole offices is hard work to some. "Different choices" lmao talking to a nationlist is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do the pigeon will knock the pieces over shit all over the board and strut around like its won the game. SHE SAID THAT EXACTLY LAB!! Typical arrogant sturgeon mate speaking for all of scotland like she f***ing owns the place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe1888 672 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 You're f***ing deluded joe. Sturgeon certainly isnt giving off the best vibes towards a platonic relationship with the rest of the UK.did you listen to that skank mhari black today? hard working lol well i guess shoplifting and hanging around dole offices is hard to work to some. "Different choices" lmao talking to a nationlist is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do the pigeon will knock the pieces over shit all over the board and strut around like its won the game. Ive not listened to the conference mate Aye, from my experience.. good and bad everywhere, like i said, cant tar everyone with the same brush Would be boring if we all were clones, HH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Seeker 3,048 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Joe your whole argument for Indepenance rests upon the notion Europe will welcome an independent Scotland with open arms. Question: would you till seek Indepenance if EU membership was off the table, yes or no? Joe? Joe? I believe there are options to be in the single market and not part of the eu, EFTA/EEA??? Yes But that's not what your leader is saying she is wanting a referendum because Scotland does not want to leave the EU. The UK will be arguing for a substantial trading agreement with the EU so why not support this as a strong union rather than a broken one. I don't get where you or SNP is coming from Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 A vote for independence last time would have been a vote to leave the EU anyway according to every single statement I've heard the EU make on the subject.. The amount of time it would take to apply and join as a new member would be measured in years, so there would have been tough times ahead no matter what. I credit my fellow celts up there with enough intelligence to look further than the bullshit the SNP spout when they say otherwise.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe1888 672 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 A vote for independence last time would have been a vote to leave the EU anyway according to every single statement I've heard the EU make on the subject.. The amount of time it would take to apply and join as a new member would be measured in years, so there would have been tough times ahead no matter what. I credit my fellow celts up there with enough intelligence to look further than the bullshit the SNP say otherwise.. You guys said that many times, i argued about common sense, that after a yes vote things would be different.. Going on whats being reported now, it looks like scotlands eu membership wont be a problem if we vote yes.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 A vote for independence last time would have been a vote to leave the EU anyway according to every single statement I've heard the EU make on the subject.. The amount of time it would take to apply and join as a new member would be measured in years, so there would have been tough times ahead no matter what. I credit my fellow celts up there with enough intelligence to look further than the bullshit the SNP say otherwise..You guys said that many times, i argued about common sense, that after a yes vote things would be different.. Going on whats being reported now, it looks like scotlands eu membership wont be a problem if we vote yes.. Source? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/scottish-nationalists-spanish-independent-scotland-brexit-snp https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/nicola-sturgeon-brexit-scottish-independence-snp-second-referendum Only things I can find about the SNP/EU with a quick search? Not great reading for a Yes voter I'd have thought? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe1888 672 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 jacquline minor, as an excisting member scotland would be in a different position from the likes of serbia and other countries going through the memberhsip process. as a member already, scotland ticks the required boxes.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe1888 672 Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/scottish-nationalists-spanish-independent-scotland-brexit-snp https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/nicola-sturgeon-brexit-scottish-independence-snp-second-referendum Only things I can find about the SNP/EU with a quick search? Not great reading for a Yes voter I'd have thought? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/scottish-nationalists-spanish-independent-scotland-brexit-snp https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/nicola-sturgeon-brexit-scottish-independence-snp-second-referendum Only things I can find about the SNP/EU with a quick search? Not great reading for a Yes voter I'd have thought? it says join the queue, there is no queue.. its just a process, as a current member the foundations are already in place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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