Creating A New Line Of Working Terrier?

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 19:50, foxbolter said:

why try to reinvent the wheel lenmcharristar?

not trying to reinvent anything, but who's to say a bull Russell x border lakey could not produce good working pups and if bred to something of similar breeding could you not start a line of good working dogs? Not long after they'd prob breed to type which could just be classed as a working terrier, didn't Plummer do it with his own stuff? Where did the good stuff start? As they say winning dogs to winning bitches? Then take a line from successful pups

[Squirrel_Basher 17,101]

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

Why the fascination with how it evolved .None of us here today have a clue .The fact is certain lines have been maintained by dedicated lads and we should be thankful to them .Why waste your life trying to create something there is no need for .

Plummer spent years apparently trying to create a wonder dog ,all rounder and ended up with a run of the mill busher .Its all been done before but we still have the main breeds to concentrate on luckily ,why try to change that .

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:17, foxdropper said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

Why the fascination with how it evolved .None of us here today have a clue .The fact is certain lines have been maintained by dedicated lads and we should be thankful to them .Why waste your life trying to create something there is no need for .

Plummer spent years apparently trying to create a wonder dog ,all rounder and ended up with a run of the mill busher .Its all been done before but we still have the main breeds to concentrate on luckily ,why try to change that .

im not trying to change anything, it's just a topic for different opinions, Plummer ended up with run of the mill yes, but he still created a new strain of terrier from different breeds, why could another bred purely from Earth dogs of different types not be created either? We're the different typ s created individually because of isolation of where they started and surely they cannot stagnate at what we have or there's not a great future for terriers, the Jack Russell wasn't good enough for the fells as they needed out n out fox killers so a different strain came along. How was it created? They were not just there.

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:27, W. Katchum said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:24, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:17, foxdropper said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

Why the fascination with how it evolved .None of us here today have a clue .The fact is certain lines have been maintained by dedicated lads and we should be thankful to them .Why waste your life trying to create something there is no need for .

Plummer spent years apparently trying to create a wonder dog ,all rounder and ended up with a run of the mill busher .Its all been done before but we still have the main breeds to concentrate on luckily ,why try to change that .

im not trying to change anything, it's just a topic for different opinions, Plummer ended up with run of the mill yes, but he still created a new strain of terrier from different breeds, why could another bred purely from Earth dogs of different types not be created either? We're the different typ s created individually because of isolation of where they started and surely they cannot stagnate at what we have or there's not a great future for terriers, the Jack Russell wasn't good enough for the fells as they needed out n out fox killers so a different strain came along. How was it created? They were not just there.

Plummer bred 2 types of terrier, not just the plummers, an he never intended on breeding digging dogs mate, ratting was his thing im sure.

So no reason why a serious digging man couldnt use 2 or more breeds/types to breed a type that suits him

thats what I was asking katchum, to see if any were just working terriers from bitsa parentage and are producing workers from the resulting working pups. Nothing fancy just honest grafters

[Zilverhaze 1,627]

Maybe If plumber was a out and out digging man he whuld of created digging dogs by natural selection of breeding the best to best but he was a ratting man and dident do much digging and there's still plumbers out ther what are good for digging ? I think it's something what chuld be done and if some one was wanting to gamble a good 10-15 -20 years of ther life into the venture then good luck to em it whuld be exiting and interesting times

[Squirrel_Basher 17,101]

So make it your lifes work mate ,nothing stopping you is there .Aimed at Lenny.

[Zilverhaze 1,627]

Jagd terriers ? Ther a mix of different dogs to create a hunting terrier

[Zilverhaze 1,627]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:33, foxdropper said:

So make it your lifes work mate ,nothing stopping you is there .

. Edited February 20, 2017 by Zilverhaze

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:33, Zilverhaze said:

Jagd terriers ? Ther a mix of different dogs to create a hunting terrier

and you can guarantee they're gona be bred into certain strains of dogs, look at the different types in France too from Britain that still work but in Britain they're fat show ponies that fear the dark and teeth.

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:33, foxdropper said:

So make it your lifes work mate ,nothing stopping you is there .Aimed at Lenny.

yes the main ingredient, working terriers lol

[Zilverhaze 1,627]

was using them as a example lol whuldent have. One of them noisey yappy fuckers if you paid me hahaha

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:41, Zilverhaze said:

was using them as a example lol whuldent have. One of them noisey yappy fuckers if you paid me hahaha

lolol but a good earth jagd bitch bred to a hard border dog??? Carlsberg moment haha

[neil cooney 10,416]

Stupid argument IMO.

Whatever about back in the day when the Russell and the Fox Terrier had a common ancestor not to far back and the Staff was a real dog.

Further North the Lakeland, the Border and the Bedlington also had a common ancestor not to far back.

Then, all were workers.

 

But here we have so called dog men discussing modern day curs such as the Plummer and the Jagd or whatever it's called.

 

I'd love if someone could put up a link to an article Plummer wrote years ago in an Irish magazine (he hadn't the guts to write it for the British) regarding his distaste for those who work their terriers properly.

He was worse than any anti IMO.

[tinytiger 854]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:27, W. Katchum said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:24, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:17, foxdropper said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

  On 20/02/2017 at 15:25, Lenmcharristar said:

 

  On 20/02/2017 at 14:50, neil cooney said:

Good litters can come from one or two curs or from an accident or from a badly thought out mating.

Good lines can't, full stop.

Good lines CANNOT be an accident or a fluke. There is always planning and thought put into each breeding.

Simple as that.

so during the creation of the black dogs, where did they start? They were never always there they were created by using other types of working terrier. Maybe in the past there was more of a chance of producing workers as most terrier breeds worked before being ruined by kennel clubs.

Why the fascination with how it evolved .None of us here today have a clue .The fact is certain lines have been maintained by dedicated lads and we should be thankful to them .Why waste your life trying to create something there is no need for .

Plummer spent years apparently trying to create a wonder dog ,all rounder and ended up with a run of the mill busher .Its all been done before but we still have the main breeds to concentrate on luckily ,why try to change that .

im not trying to change anything, it's just a topic for different opinions, Plummer ended up with run of the mill yes, but he still created a new strain of terrier from different breeds, why could another bred purely from Earth dogs of different types not be created either? We're the different typ s created individually because of isolation of where they started and surely they cannot stagnate at what we have or there's not a great future for terriers, the Jack Russell wasn't good enough for the fells as they needed out n out fox killers so a different strain came along. How was it created? They were not just there.

Plummer bred 2 types of terrier, not just the plummers, an he never intended on breeding digging dogs mate, ratting was his thing im sure.

 

So no reason why a serious digging man couldnt use 2 or more breeds/types to breed a type that suits him

he went out of his way to breed off dogs that had a good bit done. .to my mind theres a trade off between a dog with a beagle like nose and one with the minerals to be called a digging dog..had one that had both once-bought her because i was living in dublin at the time and just wanted a pet/busher..her sire was tricolour so he wasnt really a plummer no matter how many hours in the ground he done.

[Lenmcharristar 9,983]

  On 20/02/2017 at 22:54, neil cooney said:

Stupid argument IMO.

Whatever about back in the day when the Russell and the Fox Terrier had a common ancestor not to far back and the Staff was a real dog.

Further North the Lakeland, the Border and the Bedlington also had a common ancestor not to far back.

Then, all were workers.

 

But here we have so called dog men discussing modern day curs such as the Plummer and the Jagd or whatever it's called.

 

I'd love if someone could put up a link to an article Plummer wrote years ago in an Irish magazine (he hadn't the guts to write it for the British) regarding his distaste for those who work their terriers properly.

He was worse than any anti IMO.

hows it stupid Neil? Every line that gets out crossed is introducing new genetics to a line, now if that line is Russell's and they out cross to a patt, the resulting pups that work are then used in the breeding programme to keep the line going, but what was in the patt a few generations back or the Russell? So it the pups are used as an out cross to a lakey line then they are in no way similar to a purer breed but who's to say that they won't work or improve a line in any way? The modern day curs are just an example. Use the other breeds well known for earth work most lines have differences any way as over the years the out crosses used were different by men around different nations but still have cracking dogs