A Razors Edge

[dillydog 8,461]

I spoke to my old mate about this, he dug with BN for years, he never knew him to keep any borders at all. The terrier he had was one eighth border and it came of GM, it was hard as hell and it got retired with a keeper for fox control.

George M before you all get confused

Edited December 27, 2016 by dillydog

[Glyn..... 5,208]

from what i gathered the border in his terriers way back was his own border one of his first terriers before he got some off his grandfather the fellxpits then he became a Breay/Buck fan, wish someone would write a book with him

[gnipper 6,404]

Something like the nick stevens book would be a good idea. Please not sean frain though.

[pablo esc 1,598]

With the , getting a mating off the Levi oakes border , I don't think it happened and I know both men and the never say nothing but little bit of bad mouthing. Suppose , one called each other , same.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Something like the nick stevens book would be a good idea. Please not sean frain though.

Hopefully BN would tell the truth though .

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

The Sean Frain Patterdale book is all about Brian. And its pretty crap.

[andy26 618]

The Sean Frain Patterdale book is all about Brian. And its pretty crap.

that Sean frain hasn't wrote a decent book yet the ones av had through me hands of all went in the bin

[p3d 879]

from what i gathered the border in his terriers way back was his own border one of his first terriers before he got some off his grandfather the fellxpits then he became a Breay/Buck fan, wish someone would write a book with him

 

Glyn.

I agree, it would be interesting to get the full story. A lot of questions could be answered.

 

If Mr Nuttall's written pedigree for Judy in 1975 is taken back through Mr Breay's line to 1920 then its hard to see where his Grandfathers Fell x Bull came in.

 

Buck / Breay did line breed the Dog's sire / Dams Grandsire,

but they kept going out to Hunt kennels for stud dogs.

Coniston, East Kent, Bedale, Ulleswater, Cockermouth etc....

 

Up to the 1960's there is every type of terrier in the mix.

White, Fell, Border, Brindle, and all of these crosses.

 

 

It is BN who appears to have started the line breeding of Breay's dogs into his own kennel, if the pedigree is accurate.

 

 

More lads may have details to fill in the blanks for the B.N. dogs.

 

 

See attached pdf

Judy Pedigree 1975 to 1920.pdf

[pablo esc 1,598]

 

 

from what i gathered the border in his terriers way back was his own border one of his first terriers before he got some off his grandfather the fellxpits then he became a Breay/Buck fan, wish someone would write a book with him

Glyn.

I agree, it would be interesting to get the full story. A lot of questions could be answered.

 

If Mr Nuttall's written pedigree for Judy in 1975 is taken back through Mr Breay's line to 1920 then its hard to see where his Grandfathers Fell x Bull came in.

 

Buck / Breay did line breed the Dog's sire / Dams Grandsire,

but they kept going out to Hunt kennels for stud dogs.

Coniston, East Kent, Bedale, Ulleswater, Cockermouth etc....

 

Up to the 1960's there is every type of terrier in the mix.

White, Fell, Border, Brindle, and all of these crosses.

 

Judy Pedigree Image -01.jpg

 

It is BN who appears to have started the line breeding of Breay's dogs into his own kennel, if the pedigree is accurate.

 

 

More lads may have details to fill in the blanks for the B.N. dogs.

 

 

See attached pdf

Judy Pedigree 1975 to 1920.pdf

good interesting topic ,p3. And seems lot these dogs was red etc from the lakes , workers , but after something , breay was breeding black working terrier which he obviously put a lot to get there. Yes interesting to know what bn ,,grandad had and if it was a part of something that also created. I know BRI said that up in Lancashire in his time that the was real good working red terrier's .

[Corkman 944]

 

from what i gathered the border in his terriers way back was his own border one of his first terriers before he got some off his grandfather the fellxpits then he became a Breay/Buck fan, wish someone would write a book with him

 

Glyn.

I agree, it would be interesting to get the full story. A lot of questions could be answered.

 

If Mr Nuttall's written pedigree for Judy in 1975 is taken back through Mr Breay's line to 1920 then its hard to see where his Grandfathers Fell x Bull came in.

 

Buck / Breay did line breed the Dog's sire / Dams Grandsire,

but they kept going out to Hunt kennels for stud dogs.

Coniston, East Kent, Bedale, Ulleswater, Cockermouth etc....

 

Up to the 1960's there is every type of terrier in the mix.

White, Fell, Border, Brindle, and all of these crosses.

 

Judy Pedigree Image -01.jpg

 

It is BN who appears to have started the line breeding of Breay's dogs into his own kennel, if the pedigree is accurate.

 

 

More lads may have details to fill in the blanks for the B.N. dogs.

 

 

See attached pdf

Judy Pedigree 1975 to 1920.pdf

Good posts PD3 & Glyn.

 

Very informative.

 

I always suspected white dogs were in the foundation stock of black dogs!

 

A bit of everything in the mix. All we are short is a beddy or two and everyone would be happy.

[pablo esc 1,598]

 

 

from what i gathered the border in his terriers way back was his own border one of his first terriers before he got some off his grandfather the fellxpits then he became a Breay/Buck fan, wish someone would write a book with him

 

Glyn.

I agree, it would be interesting to get the full story. A lot of questions could be answered.

 

If Mr Nuttall's written pedigree for Judy in 1975 is taken back through Mr Breay's line to 1920 then its hard to see where his Grandfathers Fell x Bull came in.

 

Buck / Breay did line breed the Dog's sire / Dams Grandsire,

but they kept going out to Hunt kennels for stud dogs.

Coniston, East Kent, Bedale, Ulleswater, Cockermouth etc....

 

Up to the 1960's there is every type of terrier in the mix.

White, Fell, Border, Brindle, and all of these crosses.

 

Judy Pedigree Image -01.jpg

 

It is BN who appears to have started the line breeding of Breay's dogs into his own kennel, if the pedigree is accurate.

 

 

More lads may have details to fill in the blanks for the B.N. dogs.

 

 

See attached pdf

Judy Pedigree 1975 to 1920.pdf

Good posts PD3 & Glyn.

 

Very informative.

 

I always suspected white dogs were in the foundation stock of black dogs!

 

A bit of everything in the mix. All we are short is a beddy or two and everyone would be happy.

i know yeh. Might be where the ability comes from .good the way the carry on producing

[neil cooney 10,416]

Corkman, why did you always suspect there was white blood back in the origins of the black type ?

Was it in their conformation or the way they worked ?

Just being curious because unless some one wrote it down I wonder how someone would know ?

[pablo esc 1,598]

Who knows the truth. I might of only been fifteen years of age when I had my own working black dog from a pup , I didn't know who nuttal was but saw a picture of my dogs father in the cw , . the man who bred it said then that he could trace the dogs back to a white dog , the country I won't say but where did he come up with this. Some do tell the odd fib , but the dogs we're second to none , except some bit big and too hard .

[p3d 879]

Anyone got a picture or info of the bitches Worry, Tar or Biddy (Biddie?) from Brian Nuttall's yard?

Would have been around 1965 to 1975.

[pablo esc 1,598]

I wouldn't know that far back with seeing his dogs , a decade on. He a good man on his dogs and a hunting man. I have no photos of mine but my dog was exact same as ,blackie , gm.identical. its brother was a big black dog too , my school buddy owned. Its sister was a cracking fawn bitch and the other sister , a choc bitch went the states.when id tell BRI , about them he wasn't interested and on the other hand sometimes he'd say about others having his strain so hard to know at times