Starting To Hunt.

[saturn 0]

Hi all, First things first; Great site, loads of good information available.

So I am hoping I could get some pointers;

I wish to start hunting but am not really too sure where to start.

I live in an area where there is fields and farms every where, so I presume getting permissions to shoot would be fairly simple (Found a good letter on here )

So land would not be a problem. What I am struggling with is as being new to the sport I don't hold a FAC (obviously) So my knowledge of rifles is limited and basically next to none. So today I went to my local police station to pick up a FAC Application Form, And in this it asks for firearm details for which I would like to purchase and the reason, and where I intend to shoot. Well, I Have read that you must use the correct caliber for the specific quarry! Please can someone advise me as to what I can fill in here? I wish to shoot rabbits and fox if there (I don't intend to go looking for fox), Would the CZ 452 Silhouette .22LR be suited for this intended purpose?

Also, What is the normal amount of ammunition that people keep on them? And purchase at one stage? As I don't want to fill in a figure here that is well above the norm and seem like a mad man

Also, referees may be a problem as I don't really know who can act as them, I only really know a sister of the hospital that I have known since i lived here (4 years) after that I am stuck for a second, I never see my doctor because I am never ill I do not go to church, and I dont know a lawyer etc etc etc. Can a manager from work sign this?

And what other things do I need to be allowed to shoot the above mentioned? FAC + Rifle + Permissions + Common Sense. Anything else?

Is there a "hunting license" or something of similar?

Sorry for the stupidly long post and sorry I know so little (we all start somewhere ) and I hope some one will be able to make sense of what I'm asking.

Cheers guys.

Sam

[Guest Lord B]

There will be plenty of advise on here for you, and indeed I could answer all your points quite easily but it would take pages!!!

 

Now you have the FAC forms I would suggest visiting your local gun shop and talking with them, they will advise you in person and should give you good advise.

 

Your choise of rifles will depend on quarry, and although there are rifles (.17HMR) that will "legally" kill foxes and rabbits most hunter chose two dif calibres eg .22rf and .22-250 (these are just examples). Get into your nearest gun shop and ask away, they will have all the answers.

 

Also, its worth joining BASC as the advise from their firearms dept will be invaluable www.basc.org (i think)

 

As for your refs, the nursing sister will do, a company director is another easy one, anyone who is a director of a Ltd company, in some instances managers may be acceptable, and I also know of instances where other FAC holder have countersigned in that capacity - afterall, if they are not "persons of good standing", who is??

 

I hope this helps without clouding the situation? I think a lot of advise will be forthcoming just don't get bogged down with it all.

 

If you have any specific Q's, PM me and I'll answer, I'm an ex RFD (Registered Firearms Dealer)

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

I'd suggest an alternative might be to just get yeself an air rifle to start off with. That'll lead ye to learning ye basic field craft and weapons safety. Killgerm ~ Here ~ arrange a brilliant and consumately enjoyable day long Air Weapons Safety and Handling Course at two or three locations. That gives ye a lot of sound, practical advice, a bloody fantastic day out and a professionally endorsed Certificate to show ye know where to point the thing and what at. If ye seen to be Trained to handle an air rifle safely - and have made that effort to become so trained - that's a big feather in ye cap when ye later approach land owners and the Police.

 

Obviously, ye can't go pointing air guns at foxes. But just rein in a bit and learn to walk first. The usual beggining is a spring operated air rifle and popping rabbits. That'll show ye what it's all really like.

[saturn 0]

I'd suggest an alternative might be to just get yeself an air rifle to start off with. That'll lead ye to learning ye basic field craft and weapons safety. Killgerm ~ Here ~ arrange a brilliant and consumately enjoyable day long Air Weapons Safety and Handling Course at two or three locations. That gives ye a lot of sound, practical advice, a bloody fantastic day out and a professionally endorsed Certificate to show ye know where to point the thing and what at. If ye seen to be Trained to handle an air rifle safely - and have made that effort to become so trained - that's a big feather in ye cap when ye later approach land owners and the Police.

 

Obviously, ye can't go pointing air guns at foxes. But just rein in a bit and learn to walk first. The usual beggining is a spring operated air rifle and popping rabbits. That'll show ye what it's all really like.

 

Thanks for the advice, (both of you). In regards to starting with Air Rifles, I've been shooting air rifles for a couple years now, mostly paper punching but I have permission to shoot on my aunties farm and have been shooting there for a month or so now, and want to move up to a real rifle, but I think I am trying to absorb too much information at once. I speak to one person they say one thing others say others, So I think speaking to firearms officer at police station and also speaking to people at local gun dealers is the best idea.

One person I spoke to said it is illegal to kill a fox or shoot a fox without a "special hunting / fox hunting license" is this true or something he's made up?

Also that it's illegal to kill deer (not that I would want to kill them anyway, but asking for reference).

So I would be fine hunting with the CZ 452 Silhouette .22LR, I choose this as it seems like a viable financial choice, Hear good things about it, and the price is right IMO seems like a good entry rifle. Also, I have a criminal record (driving offences) I am not a nut case nor a thug or chav. Would this cause major problems? As I see you have to disclose driving offenses.

 

Thanks again both.

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

Ah, ye've already cut ye teeth with air then? I suppose it's time to have another word with that Auntie, eh? That'd be ye Permission. 'Mind you, the above course still stands as said. And I really Did have a fantasticly good time there. Those people look after ye

 

Before I bow out then and let the far more knowledgable people take over; " Special Fox (shooting) lisence " Not that I've ever heard of! But then, I've been out of england for a couple of years now, so don't take even That as gospel. Things might have changed. But there's a heck of a lot of guys on here shoot foxes by the score. They'll know.

 

Deer I don't even know enough about to make a worth while comment.

 

That particular rifle though? F*cking beauty, isn't it?! I've got a thing called a .22 Hornet and want to down size to a .22 Magnum. I so wish they did the Silli in Mag! But anyway, I'm going for a similar, black synthetic job. Used to hate them, till I actually handled one. Then I was smitten!

[saturn 0]

Yup it is a nice looking gun, I myself never used to like the look of them, but recently they have start to grow on me

And yeah I noticed that looking over the pages in the site people shooting foxes like there is no tomorrow which made me cast more doubt on the whole "special license from the government" thing.

With getting permissions I know this might sound stupid, but do I just walk up to said farmers door, knock on it, ask if I can shoot, give him the letter to sign, and walk away? Like I said the only permission to shoot I have is my aunties land, which was easy done really, over dinner sort of thing

What is the best way to approach for permissions to shoot?

Cheers guys, i'll catch back in tomorrow, really need my beauty sleep now

Edited December 10, 2007 by saturn

[Guest Lord B]

Fox hunting lisence? No, def not!

 

Legal to shoot deer? Yes 100%, in season and with an approved calibre rifle subject to permisions etc.....

 

The CZ, great rifle for the money. There are better out there, Anchutz etc, but for this money you won't beat the CZ. I personally would go with the standard wooden varmint as oposed to synth but that is a personal choise.

 

Once again I reiterate visiting your nearest shop, ask away, and they'll be glad to help you.

 

The idea about doing a course is a good one, very few people do, but they are becoming more popular. There are a few about but not many. Again, if you joing BASC (recomended, as this will give you insurance with your membership and nobody should take a gun outdoors without liability insurance just incase) they have a number of recognised rimfire (sml rifle) and centerfire (bigger) courses and are seen as the defacto "governing body" - not that they are actually that, but they are the biggest organisation.

 

I have done a few courses with BASC and other organisations such as LANTRA, purely because of my business, having pieces of paper to confirm your skill and knowledge can set you appart from others - and would recoment them to a novice.

 

The main thing to understand is that firearms are wholy diferant to air rifles or even shotguns; and the .22, dispite being seen as the "baby" is one of the most dangerous from the point of view of ricochets etc, I would advise if you choose not to do a little day course to at the very least you go out the first few times with someone who is an experianced shot.

 

Finding someone can be hard if you are a newbie, but there may even be someone on here who would help.

 

Another thing you will have to sort prior to your application for an FAC is permission to shoot over land, as the land location (farm address etc) and type of quarry (target species) needs to be included on your application form.

 

Like I said earlier, its a bit of a minefield if you are new to it, much more so than starting out with a shotgun.

 

I would recomend only applying for the .22 to start, and them applying for a "variation" to add a foxing rifle at a later date.

 

On your forms put:

 

Firearms Owned / wanted: .22 B/A Rimfire Rifle (or semi auto if you pref, but the CZ you mention is BA)

Also add on the next line; Moderator - this has to be added in order to get one, even if you don't want one you are allowed once its on your lisence.

For "reason" put small vermin control

 

Ammunition: Keep / Store - 500rds Buy - 250rds (if the police are not happy they will change this.

 

Place to be used; you need to write the address and contact details of farm/s where you have been given permission. There is never enough space so continue on a seperate sheet of paper.

 

Also note, it is legally requested that your ammunition and working parts (rifle bolt) are not stored with the rifle, so these either need to be in a seperate locked safe or in a lock top box type gun cabinet, one which has a seperate locking compartment in the top.

 

Like I said, if you want to talk it through just PM me or give me a call.

[Guest Lord B]

Yup it is a nice looking gun, I myself never used to like the look of them, but recently they have start to grow on me

And yeah I noticed that looking over the pages in the site people shooting foxes like there is no tomorrow which made me cast more doubt on the whole "special license from the government" thing.

With getting permissions I know this might sound stupid, but do I just walk up to said farmers door, knock on it, ask if I can shoot, give him the letter to sign, and walk away? Like I said the only permission to shoot I have is my aunties land, which was easy done really, over dinner sort of thing

What is the best way to approach for permissions to shoot?

Cheers guys, i'll catch back in tomorrow, really need my beauty sleep now

 

Obtaining permission is harder than it sounds. If you know plenty of farmers its easier. I would suggest getting in touch with your local gamekeeper and trying to get out lamping with him, he may them allow you to put the shoot/estate land on your application. Otherwise, without farming contacts is really is a case of knocking on doors. This may not be as productive as you think, as a lot of land it "taken", but worth a try, and remember not to pop round at meal times!!! If by this time you are a BASC member, or for that matter NGO etc, tell them so, and make mention of the fact you as a member carry liability insurance........

 

Also, get to know the regulars in your local gun shop, they will be a mine of information in this regard and you may get invited to tag along lamping this way.

[Guest Lord B]

.............sorry, forgot to add, re the driving convictions; they really aught not to be a problem, it violent crime etc that is the no go area, but DO put the convictions down where asked. If you don't, and they find them during a records check the whole process will just take so much longer!

[Deker 3,478]

Saturn Lord B

 

Fox hunting lisence? No, def not!

 

Legal to shoot deer? Yes 100%, in season and with an approved calibre rifle subject to permisions etc.....

 

The CZ, great rifle for the money. There are better out there, Anchutz etc, but for this money you won't beat the CZ. I personally would go with the standard wooden varmint as oposed to synth but that is a personal choise. Lord B

 

Absolutely correct, up until August 1st 2007 you did also need a Game Licence to shoot deer but that is now abolished! There are also situations where you can take deer out of season and at night but lets not complicate things at this stage.

 

 

I would recomend only applying for the .22 to start, and them applying for a "variation" to add a foxing rifle at a later date. Lord B

 

I would recomend applying for a.22 rim fire and a .22centrefire at the start

 

For "reason" put small vermin control Lord B

 

for the .22 rimfire put .......small ground game and vermim, Fox and zeroing

for the .22 centrefire (.222, .223, 22-250) put...... small ground game and vermin, Fox, Muntjac, CWD and zeroing

 

Ask for moderators on BOTH...you do not have to rush out and buy them if you don't want to.

On the Ammo side do not forget to list EXPANDING.

You could always push your luck and ask for an Open ticket as well...Hey..the worst they can say is NO!

 

Now please ....I don't have any desire to get into an arguement with what anyone thinks is acceptable for fox, but my .22 rimmy, .223 and .243 ALL have fox on them. Police forces round the country interpret the firearms laws the way they want. Apply for the rimmy and centrefire in the way I have said and it is very possible the centrefire will be knocked back, but on that basis it is possible they will take the rimmy for fox. Now, because of the type of many of my sites I have taken more fox with my .22LR than with any other tool. Some forces round the country will simply not accept the rimmy for fox, others have no problem, and please don't start an arguement that a .22rimfire is not up to fox.

 

I have the CZ Silhouette in .22LR with a SAK on the end of it. It is a brilliant value for money rifle and most importantly shoots well. Anschutz rifles are excellent but could be considered overengineered and heavy for the "ordinary shooter", commonly used in professional pest control. Oh yes.... they are expensive as well!

 

Sound like I'm taking you apart Lord B, but I am not, and that is certainly not the intention. I totally agree with the majority of what you have said but have added a bit to round things off. Like you said in your first reply to this....could easily take pages to answer this one.......trouble is, those same pages of answers for one firearms region may not be quite the same for another region, daft I know but as we are all aware thats the way it is. The BASC etc is useful but as you also say a local RFD should give you the lowdown on the way the local firearms region thinks.

 

 

Saturn

We all know what you mean but be careful in your choice of words and want to move up to a real rifle "air rifles" are REAL rifles! They have killed people and although I am not specifically aware of the figures (are there any official ones) I suspect they have killed as many, if not more rats, squirrels and rabbits in this country than any other gun. You also appear to be relatively fortunate with regard land!

 

I suspect, as Lord B said there will be a few more pages to this one yet.

 

Cheers

 

Deker

[wesm 0]

Ammunition: Keep / Store - 500rds Buy - 250rds (if the police are not happy they will change this.

 

You have to apply to keep ammo in your home? Yikes. I realized you had severe restrictions on firearms but this is going a bit too far.

 

Now I can see where the politicians are getting their ideas from for Canada.

[saturn 0]

Saturn

We all know what you mean but be careful in your choice of words and want to move up to a real rifle "air rifles" are REAL rifles! They have killed people and although I am not specifically aware of the figures (are there any official ones) I suspect they have killed as many, if not more rats, squirrels and rabbits in this country than any other gun. You also appear to be relatively fortunate with regard land!

 

I suspect, as Lord B said there will be a few more pages to this one yet.

 

Cheers

 

Deker

 

Sorry for my poorly worded statement, I know exactly what you mean about being real rifles. At the time I could not think of another descriptive.

 

Cheers for your advice, and yes I seem to be ok with regards to land as there is approx 40 acres (maybe less, but not much).

Would police be happy with this amount? I spoke to the license department earlier on today with regards to referees and the women I spoke to there said they would much rather I get a neighbor who knows me well rather than my doctor who does not know me. Also I asked about criminal record and she said declare everything and it's not likely that there will be a problem..

I am not looking forward to getting permissions to shoot, for a 21 year old I'm very shy

Looking in to a BACS membership as I type so thank for the tips on that, and I think the idea of a course or two sounds like it would not only be informative but also enjoyable, So something I will definitely look in to.

Thanks

 

PS: In the ammo store/buy side, do i need to put

.22LR - 500 rds

.22LR expanding - 500 rds ?

Sorry for these most likely stupid questions.

[SNAP SHOT 194]

if you don't no where the framer lives, just take a walk up to any farmer working in the field, and simply say excuse me i was wondering do you know who owns this land, if he/she say's they do, then simply say you have a 22lr and are looking to shoot a few rabbits etc. and would they mind if you shot a few rabbits on the land, mentioning that you are insured and that you will take great care on the land.

 

if they say yes then your elected, but if no, say thank you for your time and walk away, you will be surprised how many farmers will say no to see your reaction. so always be polite. and they sometimes will call you back and say well what harmcan it do.......

[Deker 3,478]

Saturn

We all know what you mean but be careful in your choice of words and want to move up to a real rifle "air rifles" are REAL rifles! They have killed people and although I am not specifically aware of the figures (are there any official ones) I suspect they have killed as many, if not more rats, squirrels and rabbits in this country than any other gun. You also appear to be relatively fortunate with regard land!

 

I suspect, as Lord B said there will be a few more pages to this one yet.

 

Cheers

 

Deker

 

Sorry for my poorly worded statement, I know exactly what you mean about being real rifles. At the time I could not think of another descriptive.

 

Cheers for your advice, and yes I seem to be ok with regards to land as there is approx 40 acres (maybe less, but not much).

Would police be happy with this amount? I spoke to the license department earlier on today with regards to referees and the women I spoke to there said they would much rather I get a neighbor who knows me well rather than my doctor who does not know me. Also I asked about criminal record and she said declare everything and it's not likely that there will be a problem..

I am not looking forward to getting permissions to shoot, for a 21 year old I'm very shy

Looking in to a BACS membership as I type so thank for the tips on that, and I think the idea of a course or two sounds like it would not only be informative but also enjoyable, So something I will definitely look in to.

Thanks

 

PS: In the ammo store/buy side, do i need to put

.22LR - 500 rds

.22LR expanding - 500 rds ?

Sorry for these most likely stupid questions.

 

Sorry for these most likely stupid questions

 

They are not stupid at all and the FAC application is not the best worded either.

 

Land size is always very difficult, its something people often make far to much of. You could end up with a 1 Acre hole in the ground cleared for centrefire, but a 100 acre flat field surrounded by a housing estate refused for a rimfire!!! See what I mean, size really isn't everything.

 

I think you mean BASC in the post above (unless of course you are trying to transfer some money to me). BASC do offer several courses that you may find useful, take a look at their website.

 

Ammo ...Just apply for the TOTAL you want in Expanding, if it is approved it will appear as EXP on your FAC and you will be able to buy your choice of solid or expanding up to the total limit. We all have our own idea of how to fill in the application and Lord B has given you valuable advice. However, I would tend to be ambitious with the application rather than cautious on the basis that if you don't ask you don't get. Don't be STUPID with the application but it is not uncommon at the home visit to sit down , have a good chat, thrash out the detail and hopefully end up close to what you want. Again though, as Lord B said...find a good local RFD...he knows exactly how your local region works.

[Guest Macnas]

I'll second Snapshots post, just because you're surrounded by loads of lovely countryside heaving with game doesn't mean you'll get any permission to shoot it.

 

Go and ask, don't go armed, don't look like you've been dragged through a ditch backwards, be polite (but not a lickspittle), and take your refusals with good grace.