Mid Tube Or Stopped End

[Bestabout21 66]

[BANNED TEXT] I dig my hard dog I'll break throw an then dig behind the quarry head work on times but long as jobs done I'm happy dogs happy an most important thing is land owners happy

[Waz 4,265]

Seen this on another site, if you dig down to your terrier and it's in mid fube, either in hold or baying at its quarry and U lift the terrier out and the quarry moves on, do you still class that as a dig? Or do you expect the terrier to work the quarry to a stopped end and keep it there?

 

Youve not lifted the quarry, so its a fail, but not a fail for the dog, or a fail for you, more of a win for the quarry. So stick a net in the dig over the tubes of as the quarry might make the mistake of heading to that part of the EARTH again

 

Cant elaborate any more on as your probably in a different country to me and the laws are an ass in some.

[raynardman 519]

Yeh it's a dig, but not a successful one if you haven't accounted for the quarry and both yourself and the dog have failed.

[Lenmcharristar 9,814]

It's a weird thing when it happens, it can be harder quarry that wants the dog out of its home but when ya break through it turns and runs, or it could be that the dog is weary of its quarry either starting too hard or taking unecessary stick that's affected it's confidence. If it makes a habit of it then it's time for a career change for the dog

[neil cooney 10,416]

How long is a piece of string ?

There are so many answers to the original question that a whole book could be wrote on the subject.

I've known earths with no stop ends in them and some of them had figure of eights ,so how could a terrier get it's quarry into a stop end ?

Only after a few digs would these places have a stop end.

I've known educated quarry to learn that to hold a terrier mid-tube gives them an escape plan when the shovels break through. If they go by the terrier then the hunt continues. If they go back then trenching on or another hole concludes the hunt.

Hard terriers will hold them mid-tube ?

I've seen 35 lbs staffs dragged around.

Bayers should hold them using their voice ?

True, but when you lift the bayer the quarry is now in control. But the bayer did what it knows best and that's life.

I totally agree that a successful dig is when the terrierman has the quarry 100% under his control where he's in a position to shoot it or release but those who tell us that this is only achievable by digging one hole every time have IMO Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck carrying their shovels for them.

[Pick and bar 381]

Amen to that!!

" sense on THL" can't see it catching on.

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

Good post Neil.

[Apache... 2,588]

x

Edited January 10, 2017 by Apache...

[pablo esc 1,598]

In my limited experience a dig is not a dig unless the dog and digger are in total control of his game. Also, having dug places that have never been dug and digging places that have been dug for years whether educated quarry or uneducated, I have found a very experienced dog will put his game in a stop end every time. Now I am talking about seasoned dogs, dogs that know there stuff, no excuses no ifs or buts. In and on, work there game and push it to a stop end THAT IS IT. When you dig down and there holding them in a tube great, only big lumps hold them in a tube, to me thats not working there game they should push it to a stop end, when dogs get dragged around and [ supposedly ] there is no stop end a question mark is over the dog. The chances of somewhere not having a stop end is near impossible. Only after digging places year after year with numerous dogs of different types [ mute dogs and sounders ] have i come to this conclusion. I am sure some will disagree!!! Good post ,and that's the job. Know some old burrows and tried them a couple of seasons a couple of times , and dug to it properly and that was not over doing it. It just didn't want you to dig him when you arrived .anyway dog was dug to and one hole dug , dog worked him well up into a tube and he gave his all and had it 100 %.. Another place where the well educated the dog bolted him , he was right on its arse following it . next season he was dug too again .I missed the side to break in.wrong place. Dog held it again .it was my mistake . he was hard , and had to bolt .dog done everything right and I greatly admired it .obviously I can't say I dug it because of my close error but it was caught and releasd .

[stop.end 4,081]

In my limited experience a dig is not a dig unless the dog and digger are in total control of his game. Also, having dug places that have never been dug and digging places that have been dug for years whether educated quarry or uneducated, I have found a very experienced dog will put his game in a stop end every time. Now I am talking about seasoned dogs, dogs that know there stuff, no excuses no ifs or buts. In and on, work there game and push it to a stop end THAT IS IT. When you dig down and there holding them in a tube great, only big lumps hold them in a tube, to me thats not working there game they should push it to a stop end, when dogs get dragged around and [ supposedly ] there is no stop end a question mark is over the dog. The chances of somewhere not having a stop end is near impossible. Only after digging places year after year with numerous dogs of different types [ mute dogs and sounders ] have i come to this conclusion. I am sure some will disagree!!!

the only sensible statement spoke on this thread regarding the matter... and bang on!

every burrow has a stop end... of course im talking about established places renowned for holding foxes...not scrags where one has been run in with hounds.. if not the animal would not take up residence.. he/she has to sleep WARM and DRY if they are to establish a place to live over a period of time and figure eights and no stop ends do not provide such sanctuary

[pablo esc 1,598]

In my limited experience a dig is not a dig unless the dog and digger are in total control of his game. Also, having dug places that have never been dug and digging places that have been dug for years whether educated quarry or uneducated, I have found a very experienced dog will put his game in a stop end every time. Now I am talking about seasoned dogs, dogs that know there stuff, no excuses no ifs or buts. In and on, work there game and push it to a stop end THAT IS IT. When you dig down and there holding them in a tube great, only big lumps hold them in a tube, to me thats not working there game they should push it to a stop end, when dogs get dragged around and [ supposedly ] there is no stop end a question mark is over the dog. The chances of somewhere not having a stop end is near impossible. Only after digging places year after year with numerous dogs of different types [ mute dogs and sounders ] have i come to this conclusion. I am sure some will disagree!!!

the only sensible statement spoke on this thread regarding the matter... and bang on!

every burrow has a stop end... of course im talking about established places renowned for holding foxes...not scrags where one has been run in with hounds.. if not the animal would not take up residence.. he/she has to sleep WARM and DRY if they are to establish a place to live over a period of time and figure eights and no stop ends do not provide such sanctuary[/quote ] the do , and any real hunting man would know what you and apache said. On the ball. ! A good one who you might not dug can still be worked by a good dog and I am not talking about bars or banging on the top to move him , it knows its place and knows its moves,the quarry

[pablo esc 1,598]

How long is a piece of string ?

There are so many answers to the original question that a whole book could be wrote on the subject.

I've known earths with no stop ends in them and some of them had figure of eights ,so how could a terrier get it's quarry into a stop end ?

Only after a few digs would these places have a stop end.

I've known educated quarry to learn that to hold a terrier mid-tube gives them an escape plan when the shovels break through. If they go by the terrier then the hunt continues. If they go back then trenching on or another hole concludes the hunt.

Hard terriers will hold them mid-tube ?

I've seen 35 lbs staffs dragged around.

Bayers should hold them using their voice ?

True, but when you lift the bayer the quarry is now in control. But the bayer did what it knows best and that's life.

I totally agree that a successful dig is when the terrierman has the quarry 100% under his control where he's in a position to shoot it or release but those who tell us that this is only achievable by digging one hole every time have IMO Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck carrying their shovels for them.

piece of string? Never seen a figure of eight burrows. Sure you haven't been playing scaletric or pretend burrows.

[DogFox123 1,379]

Our old Patterdale used to drag a fox all over the earth, a nightmare....

[dillydog 8,463]

Niel IMO you're right, there could be a book on the question and the answers, Pablo , if you haven't seen all types of earths you aren't getting out enough, if you haven't come across an earth with no stopends you're welcome to come and try one I know of.

I've dug eight foot and a few foot to terriers ticking away and taken the game successfully but when I've shone a torch to look for anymore stragglers I've seen they weren't in a pot !

[Treehands. 1,379]

Unless excavated completely, we can only guess the layout of an earth.

Stop end or no stopend some quarry can get in the habit of meeting the dog mid tube , learning from past experience

to keep open tube behind him to enhance his chance of escape.

A deep sharp corner is as warm and dry as any stop end and I've seen chambers to fit a man with multiple exits.

Drains are regular overnighters and have ended many a good dogs career for having no stop.

Which makes me think some quarry puts safety over comfort on choosing were to sleep.

 

I always found when you go for round two on a big spot , theirs more chance of one digging itself in already.

Which is a test for any dog imo.

 

Th.

 

Ps . Good post mr cooney.