Plummer Or Plummer X

[General lee 979]

They aren't mine mate a friend of mine has them the bitch is paperd the dog isn't I can't pm at the minute as I'm on my phone and it won't let me but I will get some more info and drop you a pm I would be interested to hear your thoughts

[Flacko 1,755]

What size is the Plummer dog mate

[General lee 979]

I think he's twelve inches mate but he's very bully wise chested big head and neck the plummet bitch is more finely built and ranger my bitch is ten inches with a Lakeland head and a broken red coat

[Plucky1 1,119]

Lee, here's a few pics of some russell/plummers, Nuttall/plummers etc, there are some pics of lake crosses somewhere if I find some I'll pop them up for you, WM

Russell dog over my Plummer bitch, bred for some mates that just dig,good heads and a litter of 4

made good digging dogs, this one went to a keeper

 

Plummer dog (Remlap) over my mates Russell bitch, bred for family that mainly do rats but have been dug to

 

 

 

Nuttall dog over a Plummer bitch, never let me down 100% and work anything (left)

my bitch (left) back to a nuttall dog, so 3/4 bred

 

some other Plummer/Nuttall pups

 

I bred lots of different litters using different lines of Russell,Mouseley,Gould,Scott,etc to see what was produced,work was the main reason (digging), conformation,head size but mainly to try and soften the hard attitude the Nuttall types produced, I found the first cross of either made excellent digging dogs, I preferred the Russell looking ones as they did not show the scars from work as much, anyone who keeps a black dog will know what I mean, I like a bolting type of terrier and although we dug them often they seemed to get a bolt more,they worked cover better and could be shot over,ferreted,move livestock,in fact pretty much what my Plummers do now, just a good all round terrier,hope this helps, I do have loads of other pics but it means trawling through thousands of photo's, WM

[General lee 979]

Thanks for the information mate I like the dog in the second pic down that's the type I'm hoping to get if I put the Plummer dog over my Lakeland Russell bitch

[tinytiger 840]

Lee, here's a few pics of some russell/plummers, Nuttall/plummers etc, there are some pics of lake crosses somewhere if I find some I'll pop them up for you, WM

Russell dog over my Plummer bitch, bred for some mates that just dig,good heads and a litter of 4

made good digging dogs, this one went to a keeper

CSC_3853.JPG

Plummer dog (Remlap) over my mates Russell bitch, bred for family that mainly do rats but have been dug to

DSCN1144.JPG

DSCN1182.JPG

DSCN1188.JPG

Nuttall dog over a Plummer bitch, never let me down 100% and work anything (left)

my bitch (left) back to a nuttall dog, so 3/4 bred

scans 033.jpg

some other Plummer/Nuttall pups

test pics 230.jpg

I bred lots of different litters using different lines of Russell,Mouseley,Gould,Scott,etc to see what was produced,work was the main reason (digging), conformation,head size but mainly to try and soften the hard attitude the Nuttall types produced, I found the first cross of either made excellent digging dogs, I preferred the Russell looking ones as they did not show the scars from work as much, anyone who keeps a black dog will know what I mean, I like a bolting type of terrier and although we dug them often they seemed to get a bolt more,they worked cover better and could be shot over,ferreted,move livestock,in fact pretty much what my Plummers do now, just a good all round terrier,hope this helps, I do have loads of other pics but it means trawling through thousands of photo's, WM

pity plummer didnt use more of your stuff back then--a friend of mine has a bitch 3/8 plummer 1/8 bull out of a patterdale bitch.handy spannable bitch but something else to dig to..unfortunately our local mong of a vet removed her uterus by accident..i had a dog of the same litter but he got killed in a kennel accident..the mother of them was supposed to be a daughter of harcombes big ron.

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

Lee, here's a few pics of some russell/plummers, Nuttall/plummers etc, there are some pics of lake crosses somewhere if I find some I'll pop them up for you, WM

Russell dog over my Plummer bitch, bred for some mates that just dig,good heads and a litter of 4

made good digging dogs, this one went to a keeper

CSC_3853.JPG

Plummer dog (Remlap) over my mates Russell bitch, bred for family that mainly do rats but have been dug to

DSCN1144.JPG

DSCN1182.JPG

DSCN1188.JPG

Nuttall dog over a Plummer bitch, never let me down 100% and work anything (left)

my bitch (left) back to a nuttall dog, so 3/4 bred

scans 033.jpg

some other Plummer/Nuttall pups

test pics 230.jpg

I bred lots of different litters using different lines of Russell,Mouseley,Gould,Scott,etc to see what was produced,work was the main reason (digging), conformation,head size but mainly to try and soften the hard attitude the Nuttall types produced, I found the first cross of either made excellent digging dogs, I preferred the Russell looking ones as they did not show the scars from work as much, anyone who keeps a black dog will know what I mean, I like a bolting type of terrier and although we dug them often they seemed to get a bolt more,they worked cover better and could be shot over,ferreted,move livestock,in fact pretty much what my Plummers do now, just a good all round terrier,hope this helps, I do have loads of other pics but it means trawling through thousands of photo's, WM

pity plummer didnt use more of your stuff back then--a friend of mine has a bitch 3/8 plummer 1/8 bull out of a patterdale bitch.handy spannable bitch but something else to dig to..unfortunately our local mong of a vet removed her uterus by accident..i had a dog of the same litter but he got killed in a kennel accident..the mother of them was supposed to be a daughter of harcombes big ron.

 

John, I never really seen Plummer after he fell out with a mutual friend and it wasn't till the late 80's before I spoke to him again at the Midland game fair, he just wasn't our type,we were rough and ready,earings,tattoos,etc,everything he detested, we would never of got the first 2 pups in "79" only he needed them testing on fox, we didn't even know who he was,just sounded like a crank saying he wanted a terrier named after himself, we just seen them as different coloured russells, imagine our surprise when they were later called "Plummers", WM

[Plucky1 1,119]

Thanks for the information mate I like the dog in the second pic down that's the type I'm hoping to get if I put the Plummer dog over my Lakeland Russell bitch

He's my brothers dog"sam", can be a bit fiery,as anyone thats had a "REMLAP" dog will tell you, but will work anything,in better hands he would of done very well but my brother only messes about on rats and rabbits, whilst out with me on occasions he has dropped to ground,stayed till dug to but was a tad hard, I've never seen a better "molecatcher" though,we would sit having a cup of tea in the allotment (pictured) and he would creep around cocking his head before diving into the soil digging frantically,and mostly he would catch the mole,he could definitely hear them, he was a cat killer though, I think due to not getting enough heavy work, WM

[HGN 150]

Plucky - anything of note re chest size? Plummers I have seen in the main are chesty - some more springy than others but chesty - also height size with the crosses?

[keith j 1,089]

Hello Rob,hope all is well with yourself and the team. Funny you should mention Moles young Grace has killed a few in the last couple of weeks,she dose the same as you mentioned, she listens then pounces, digs frantically, and pulls the we unsuspecting Mole out. First dog I've owned that does this. Some nice dogs in them pictures, How's young Wilf bud. Alb Keith j.

[Plucky1 1,119]

Plucky - anything of note re chest size? Plummers I have seen in the main are chesty - some more springy than others but chesty - also height size with the crosses?

The problem you have HGN is that your foundation stock is a lot larger than when I started ,Plummers in general,especially those bred from around the mid 90's on were all chesty and large due to the showing lot taking over,especially those that have come out of the EPTS, Welsby was using a 27lb dog 17"TTS as his main stud dog,when I challenged him about fitting down holes and the original composition of Plummers set out by Brian himself : 12 -14 TTS and easily spannable that was not of importance and I see that as why many moved away from Plummers, all Brians original stock would fly to ground but were tiny, my 2 original bitches were only 9-10"TTS and would bolt plenty but never had the head or weight required to work anything that decided to stay put and that was my main reason for the outcrosses at that time, the first crosses put all that right and as Plummer got more popular I kept my dogs away from looking like Plummers to avoid the sh*t that seems to come from owning one.Producing dogs that look like Plummers (phenotype) is easy to do but you need the genetic background to reproduce it on a regular basis (phenotype), anyone can do a first cross of unknown background and you may fall lucky, but where is there to go from there, hence all my experimentation and breeding off different dogs of known background and the other way about, put any dog to a Plummer bitch carrying too many outcrosses and it will produce unknown percentages % of different breeds or types and the same the other way about, look at some of the larger Plummers about in the last 10yrs, many, like the EPTS,PTA,etc were as big as a pure beagle due to wrong stud dogs being used, there is no use in producing large terriers that look good in a picture or show ring that cannot do what a terrier is bred for and thats working to ground, I argued for years at shows that this was the case, the answer was always the same ;

"you don't have to worry about size when only working rats",that told me that the wrong people were in charge of all the clubs,they were changing the whole basis of what Brian had originally set out to do,which was to produce a spannable terrier that could work anything from a mouse to a badger,clever enough to shoot and ferret over and at one point was near to calling it the "modern terrier", the breed was never finished by him and he moved on leaving idiots with no idea of work to finish it off, politics and infighting have been the ruination of the registered stock, the first thing "Curtis price" did was cross them with Patts when he left the clubs, I wish you luck with your quest of cleaning up the health of the registered stock, go back to basic clean stock and start from there, I visited every show within travelling range for years to find quality dogs and bitches to breed from,there are no short cuts, only hard work, some people have asked why breed off untested young stock but just sometimes it is the blood you are after and if you happen to produce a pre-potent stud dog along the way then so much the better for the breed.

You must breed to a plan from day 1 and fox dropper and myself have both pretty much bred the same way, I split my blood early into 2 half cross lines that always gives you a plan "B" if you hit a snag either on the working front or health, it will also show you any flaws you may have introduced, get as many as you can into working homes and assess any weakness's honestly and without bias, you will get good looking dogs throwing sh*te and ugly bastrads that produce stunning pups that work,but find out everything you can on any potential dogs you are thinking of putting in the line, try to stay away from rough coated terriers as it can be hard to eradicate once introduced, bit long winded but worth the effort when those quality pups hit the ground, good luck, WM

 

"original stock"

[Plucky1 1,119]

Hello Rob,hope all is well with yourself and the team. Funny you should mention Moles young Grace has killed a few in the last couple of weeks,she dose the same as you mentioned, she listens then pounces, digs frantically, and pulls the we unsuspecting Mole out. First dog I've owned that does this. Some nice dogs in them pictures, How's young Wilf bud. Alb Keith j.

Hello mate,good to hear from you, I think a good terrier kills everything before it, some have it from the off and they are quite often our better dogs, Wilfs a real character mate and has settled into a nice terrier, he's had a few to ground this last couple of weeks and stuck to the task until we broke through, nothing too deep,so quick and easy, he can be a bit narky,growling at anyone that strokes him if he don't want it, he has to come to them, he is a lot like my old dog "DANNY" and I find myself calling him that sometimes in my senility, he will mark and kill anything before him and thats enough for me but he has really taken to retrieving off water, I do the vermin on a couple of fisheries and we control the geese and ducks, he will run straight off the piers,jump in and retrieve stuff up to a good 150yds, he looks funny bringing in a canada goose, he seems to like retrieving anywhere and those couple of hours spent in the garden with old rolled up socks and then dummies have paid off, I'll get some pics of him later in the week if I can doing it, I hope everything is good in your neck of the woods and I may pop up soon on the way to Scotland, WM

 

[forest of dean redneck 11,722]

Like look of the one up on the table.

[tinytiger 840]

 

Hello Rob,hope all is well with yourself and the team. Funny you should mention Moles young Grace has killed a few in the last couple of weeks,she dose the same as you mentioned, she listens then pounces, digs frantically, and pulls the we unsuspecting Mole out. First dog I've owned that does this. Some nice dogs in them pictures, How's young Wilf bud. Alb Keith j.

Hello mate,good to hear from you, I think a good terrier kills everything before it, some have it from the off and they are quite often our better dogs, Wilfs a real character mate and has settled into a nice terrier, he's had a few to ground this last couple of weeks and stuck to the task until we broke through, nothing too deep,so quick and easy, he can be a bit narky,growling at anyone that strokes him if he don't want it, he has to come to them, he is a lot like my old dog "DANNY" and I find myself calling him that sometimes in my senility, he will mark and kill anything before him and thats enough for me but he has really taken to retrieving off water, I do the vermin on a couple of fisheries and we control the geese and ducks, he will run straight off the piers,jump in and retrieve stuff up to a good 150yds, he looks funny bringing in a canada goose, he seems to like retrieving anywhere and those couple of hours spent in the garden with old rolled up socks and then dummies have paid off, I'll get some pics of him later in the week if I can doing it, I hope everything is good in your neck of the woods and I may pop up soon on the way to Scotland, WM

DSC_1887.JPG

 

anything to pinsley ace?

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

 

Hello Rob,hope all is well with yourself and the team. Funny you should mention Moles young Grace has killed a few in the last couple of weeks,she dose the same as you mentioned, she listens then pounces, digs frantically, and pulls the we unsuspecting Mole out. First dog I've owned that does this. Some nice dogs in them pictures, How's young Wilf bud. Alb Keith j.

Hello mate,good to hear from you, I think a good terrier kills everything before it, some have it from the off and they are quite often our better dogs, Wilfs a real character mate and has settled into a nice terrier, he's had a few to ground this last couple of weeks and stuck to the task until we broke through, nothing too deep,so quick and easy, he can be a bit narky,growling at anyone that strokes him if he don't want it, he has to come to them, he is a lot like my old dog "DANNY" and I find myself calling him that sometimes in my senility, he will mark and kill anything before him and thats enough for me but he has really taken to retrieving off water, I do the vermin on a couple of fisheries and we control the geese and ducks, he will run straight off the piers,jump in and retrieve stuff up to a good 150yds, he looks funny bringing in a canada goose, he seems to like retrieving anywhere and those couple of hours spent in the garden with old rolled up socks and then dummies have paid off, I'll get some pics of him later in the week if I can doing it, I hope everything is good in your neck of the woods and I may pop up soon on the way to Scotland, WM

DSC_1887.JPG

 

anything to pinsley ace?

 

Wilf has "Ace" 2 generations back and it shows,stocky,cobby type, WM