Wolf coursing with Borzois.

[COMPO 54]

here's the PM i sent to Molly when this thread was locked (I HAVEN'T COPIED HER REPLY AS I HAVEN'T ASKED FOR PERMISSION):-

 

Molly

 

not meaning to start a big debate on pm, i was dissapointed that the thread has been closed, i can understand the reasons for it being closed, but i wanted to express a few points about borzois and wolf coursing that were relevant and no one seemed to know or input.

 

Borzois are run in small packs at wolfs , the minimum number is 3 at any one time, in russia they even have 3 coursing slip couple's with long leads so that 3 can be slipped together by a mounted slipper. this is the tradition and is also the minimum number to safely capture a wolf.

 

They are run at Wolfs that are usually flushed from cover by a pack of hounds, the hounds are very similar to our foxhounds, but their sole purpose is to flush the wolf to the open where it is then coursed . the hounds are operated by peasants on foot, like a big beaters line with hounds rather than spaniels.

 

The russian concept of coursing is different to ours.

 

When the wolf is pinned down (borzois dont kill the wolf, they merely contain it, by either pinning it down or holding it at bay) it may then be killed by a huntsman using a special short sword, this huntsman is often the bloke who slipped the borzois and follows on the horse that he slipped the borzois from.

 

When there is a shortage of wolves it is quiet common practice for them to capture the wolf and to use it for subsequent coursing.

 

They even sometimes parade the wolf through the town streets in its cage on the back of a horse drawn carriage before releasing it and coursing it again, and again and again. The local townsfolk follow the caged wolf to the fields where the spectacle is going to be staged.

 

The russians dont consider it cruel and their perception of hunting and coursing is different to the western sporting chance that we all employ.

 

i doubt very much the clip shown was a training exercise as many tried to justify it as, plain and simply it is the way they do things there!

 

Like bull and cock fighting, dog fighting and hunting whales, different folks and different strokes.

 

The replies that were posted no one had seen or read about wolf coursing in depth, a simple google search and an elementary understanding of russian provides the basic facts.

 

We really shouldn't condone the russians thats there heritage, whether its right or wrong i aint commenting, i used to course hares giving them a long slip and not really wanting to kill any, but then again, western view on coursing.

 

is it any more barbaric than ritual slaughter or cock fighting?? both are accepted in various places round the world, and ritual slaughter is practised in the UK and there are members on here who have watched cock fighting abroad and may even participate here.

 

Maybe a few on here need to get out a bit more and read a bit more and experience life outside their own little world.

 

I wish my points about russian wolfs coursing could have been shared though!!

[COMPO 54]

Just sat here reading this and a colleague of mine (a young lady who speaks fluent Russian) who is a mine of info on all things Russian, added a few points, the russian mentality to animals is a lot less fluffy than ours, they have NO animal rights movement, they ALL wear fur, they very rare have PET's

 

She could understand the russians conducting themselves in this manner, and she could also see how us in western europe wouldn't find it acceptable

[doxhope 2]

Yes, the Russian certainly do see animals different to us....

 

 

Stags' blood bath draws tourists into wilderness

Julius Strauss in the Altai mountains reports on a gory event for rich Russians in Siberia

 

FIRST the stag was beaten and prodded into a large, wooden vice which held it fast. As the animal groaned and keened, blood was drained from its neck into glass phials.

 

Then the antlers were sawn from its head just above the base. Blood spurted from the shorn stubs.

 

Nearby, visitors, some of whom had travelled thousands of miles for the occasion, gathered and watched the bloody spectacle with approval. Some took photographs, others were offered phials of fresh stag blood to drink.

[COMPO 54]

Yes, the Russian certainly do see animals different to us....

 

 

Stags' blood bath draws tourists into wilderness

Julius Strauss in the Altai mountains reports on a gory event for rich Russians in Siberia

 

FIRST the stag was beaten and prodded into a large, wooden vice which held it fast. As the animal groaned and keened, blood was drained from its neck into glass phials.

 

Then the antlers were sawn from its head just above the base. Blood spurted from the shorn stubs.

 

Nearby, visitors, some of whom had travelled thousands of miles for the occasion, gathered and watched the bloody spectacle with approval. Some took photographs, others were offered phials of fresh stag blood to drink.

 

 

doxhope

 

we live in a country where ritual slaughter for kosher and halal meat is allowed, they bleed to death by having their throat cut. not getting into the rights or wrongs of that, but other cultures have different values and different ethics

 

Again walk a mile in another mans shoes and you may understand more.

 

I actually fancy a holiday to Russia now, i wonder if my young female workmate fancies coming and translating for me

[salukixminshaw 1]

Yes, the Russian certainly do see animals different to us....

 

 

Stags' blood bath draws tourists into wilderness

Julius Strauss in the Altai mountains reports on a gory event for rich Russians in Siberia

 

FIRST the stag was beaten and prodded into a large, wooden vice which held it fast. As the animal groaned and keened, blood was drained from its neck into glass phials.

 

Then the antlers were sawn from its head just above the base. Blood spurted from the shorn stubs.

 

Nearby, visitors, some of whom had travelled thousands of miles for the occasion, gathered and watched the bloody spectacle with approval. Some took photographs, others were offered phials of fresh stag blood to drink.

 

 

doxhope

we live in a country where ritual slaughter for kosher and halal meat is allowed, they bleed to death by having their throat cut. not getting into the rights or wrongs of that, but other cultures have different values and different ethics

 

Again walk a mile in another mans shoes and you may understand more.

 

I actually fancy a holiday to Russia now, i wonder if my young female workmate fancies coming and translating for me

i think i might book up for russia next year

[doxhope 2]

i think i might book up for russia next year

 

 

Make it when they wake up hibernating bears and shoot them as they come out of their caves..but you will probably like that too :sick:

[porkypowell 2]

Not to my tastes but best of luck to them we all have the one thing in common the love of working dogs in their many forms.

Simon

[COMPO 54]

Make it when they wake up hibernating bears and shoot them as they come out of their caves..but you will probably like that too :sick:

 

 

i go ferreting and enter my ferrets to wake up the sleeping rabbits and have been known to shoot the rabbits as they leave.........any comparison there??

 

Also bears dont sleep all winter like you are led to believe by watch Yogi bear cartoons, they do wake occasionally and do sometimes come out to eat/drink/have a shit in the woods etc...they just try and preserve as much energy as they can during the very cold winters

[salukixminshaw 1]

doxhope if its legal im in

[doxhope 2]

Make it when they wake up hibernating bears and shoot them as they come out of their caves..but you will probably like that too :sick:

 

 

i go ferreting and enter my ferrets to wake up the sleeping rabbits and have been known to shoot the rabbits as they leave.........any comparison there??

 

Also bears dont sleep all winter like you are led to believe by watch Yogi bear cartoons, they do wake occasionally and do sometimes come out to eat/drink/have a shit in the woods etc...they just try and preserve as much energy as they can during the very cold winters

 

Forgive them father, for they no not what they say

[doxhope 2]

doxhope if its legal im in

 

SHAME

[COMPO 54]

Make it when they wake up hibernating bears and shoot them as they come out of their caves..but you will probably like that too :sick:

 

 

i go ferreting and enter my ferrets to wake up the sleeping rabbits and have been known to shoot the rabbits as they leave.........any comparison there??

 

Also bears dont sleep all winter like you are led to believe by watch Yogi bear cartoons, they do wake occasionally and do sometimes come out to eat/drink/have a shit in the woods etc...they just try and preserve as much energy as they can during the very cold winters

 

Forgive them father, for they no not what they say

 

Bless you my son, Doxhope how did you know i am a Vicar??

[doxhope 2]

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dfiles/file_178.pdf

[COMPO 54]

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dfiles/file_178.pdf

 

 

Thanks for that LINK, and it is from an independant and un-biased source at least.

 

not like International Fund for Animal Welfare are anti-hunt and also they just report the facts not bending the truth at all?

 

whats the difference between a bear and a rabbit??

 

 

None, i use ferrets to bolt rabbits, the russians use dogs!

 

Occasionally i have killed does that have had kits, occasionally the russians kill bears that have cubs, no difference at all

 

 

You really need to be careful what examples and what sources you use in this argument (sorry debate) to not damage your own argument further, and sorry quoting IFAW, you may as well quote LACS!!

 

Yours Rev Compo

[Guest joe ox]

I carnt read that link because the pdf reader on this pc is not working