BGD 6,436 Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Often wondered why LGDs weren't employed more in Canada and the US where they have real problems with predation, good to see someone encouraging their use over there They're not very effective against the foreign Mackenzie Valley wolf which has been introduced to the lower 48.Those are the timber wolves right? Can see why even a big LGD would struggle with them Yeah timber wolves. It was posed as a re-introduction but there is quite a bit of evidence that the Canadian wolves are a seperate subspecies. They are definitely bigger than the wolf which was made extinct in the lower 48, due to being a different species or merely large average individuals of the same species due to Bergmann's rule. Aye think I remember seeing a documentary about that now you mention it these reintroduction schemes are often quite misguided or badly executed IMO... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaz_1989 9,539 Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 So I got the impression from that that the spike collars are to stop the dogs murdering each other? As well as protection from wolves. Good little documentary that. Those kangals sound like they'd be something to watch 'go'! This lot didn't do to well against wolves ...... https://youtu.be/MRv_DqZW-H4 Is the guy at the start of that video "Gary" off only fools and horses? Lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh_red 4,644 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Like a few have said a pack of wolves would probably kill all the dogs if they got into a fight . I think the idea is that their a deterant . If a wolf gets injujred it could be curtains for it so maybe if their not starving they will go somewhere else they can get food reletivly easy somewhere else its probably worth going there than risk a life ending injury with the farm dogs . Ive got a rescue dog here that im pretty sure is part anatolian . Ive spoke to BGD about him and it reinforces my thoughts of him having something anatolian in him . hes constantly on guard . This is his favourite spot in the garden . Not prancing around playing like our other dog chasing balls. Any noise outside the house or down that back lane or literally anywhere outside and hes off barking and charging down the garden to the gate . Its a pain in the arse but ive grown to accept its part of his DNA Like the ones in the videos hes absolutly spot on with my kids . Never growled , never nothing i have ever had to worry about with the kids or anybody's kids . Only time he hurts them is if he walks past them and stands on their bare feet or turns round and knocks them over . When my little girl cries hes up and over to her straight away fussing her . Absolute pain in the arse dog (as hes not doing what he was bred to do ) but i wouldnt be without him . 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodger 2,759 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 He looks a crackin dog to have around.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh_red 4,644 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 He looks a crackin dog to have around.. Got rid of cat shit in the garden problem within hours 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lid 194 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 That's great - thanks for putting up the video. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,763 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Like a few have said a pack of wolves would probably kill all the dogs if they got into a fight . I think the idea is that their a deterant . If a wolf gets injujred it could be curtains for it so maybe if their not starving they will go somewhere else they can get food reletivly easy somewhere else its probably worth going there than risk a life ending injury with the farm dogs . Possible wolf-dog interactions won't just be directly about eating the livestock though. Like other apex predators, wolves actively kill other lesser predators when encountered to improve their competitiveness in the local food chain. It just makes you wonder how many of these dogs you really need to be effective in areas that have well established wolf packs. In the video, although wolves were mentioned, it seemed that the most significant threat was coyote packs. Added to that I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that coyotes didn't really form packs in established wolf territory it just makes me wonder...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh_red 4,644 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Like a few have said a pack of wolves would probably kill all the dogs if they got into a fight . I think the idea is that their a deterant . If a wolf gets injujred it could be curtains for it so maybe if their not starving they will go somewhere else they can get food reletivly easy somewhere else its probably worth going there than risk a life ending injury with the farm dogs . Possible wolf-dog interactions won't just be directly about eating the livestock though. Like other apex predators, wolves actively kill other lesser predators when encountered to improve their competitiveness in the local food chain. It just makes you wonder how many of these dogs you really need to be effective in areas that have well established wolf packs. In the video, although wolves were mentioned, it seemed that the most significant threat was coyote packs. Added to that I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that coyotes didn't really form packs in established wolf territory it just makes me wonder...... That is a point , didn't they mention getting a new dog each year ? Maybe their hoping for quantity of dogs might dissuade the wolves Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowsnest 55 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 i had a kangol from turkish imported parents , he was awsome,but sadly died young, the people i got him from, i had to go have couple of interviews and they sent someone to see my house befor they let me have one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh_red 4,644 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 i had a kangol from turkish imported parents , he was awsome,but sadly died young, the people i got him from, i had to go have couple of interviews and they sent someone to see my house befor they let me have one You got any pictures ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unlacedgecko 1,466 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Like a few have said a pack of wolves would probably kill all the dogs if they got into a fight . I think the idea is that their a deterant . If a wolf gets injujred it could be curtains for it so maybe if their not starving they will go somewhere else they can get food reletivly easy somewhere else its probably worth going there than risk a life ending injury with the farm dogs . Possible wolf-dog interactions won't just be directly about eating the livestock though. Like other apex predators, wolves actively kill other lesser predators when encountered to improve their competitiveness in the local food chain. It just makes you wonder how many of these dogs you really need to be effective in areas that have well established wolf packs. In the video, although wolves were mentioned, it seemed that the most significant threat was coyote packs. Added to that I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that coyotes didn't really form packs in established wolf territory it just makes me wonder...... Your right. Coyotes predate foxes, wolves predate coyotes, dingos predate feral cats. Where the wolves are rolling out from their re-introduction points the livestock guardian dogs are becoming ineffective. New breeds are being tried. http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-05-07/us-researchers-hope-more-assertive-foreign-dog-breeds-can-protect-livestock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beast 1,884 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 they are using these types of dog in parts of Africa now to protect cheetahs. where the tribes are grazing goats and sheep in the national parks they become easy prey for native predators like leopard hyena and cheetah. now normally the tribes will do their best to kill these predators, and there are enough leopard jackal hyena that this doesnt matter. but cheetahs are very threatened now in the wild, so the idea is that these dogs drive them away from the flocks so the tirbes dont need to kill them. i'm not sure how well it works, b ecause to my mind a leopard or hyena might well enjoy a snack od dogmeat, but apparently its quite a comon method now. i should google it shouldnt i rather than tell half a story..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh_red 4,644 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 they are using these types of dog in parts of Africa now to protect cheetahs. where the tribes are grazing goats and sheep in the national parks they become easy prey for native predators like leopard hyena and cheetah. now normally the tribes will do their best to kill these predators, and there are enough leopard jackal hyena that this doesnt matter. but cheetahs are very threatened now in the wild, so the idea is that these dogs drive them away from the flocks so the tirbes dont need to kill them. i'm not sure how well it works, b ecause to my mind a leopard or hyena might well enjoy a snack od dogmeat, but apparently its quite a comon method now. i should google it shouldnt i rather than tell half a story..... I got a little book here about anayolians and cheetahs . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beast 1,884 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 can you give us a bit more information from it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh_red 4,644 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 can you give us a bit more information from it? Just dug it out . It's called "frenemies for life". It's not a classic, written a bit like a kids book if I'm honest . It focuses only on the cheetahs so no info about other predators . But the cheetahs unlike other cats is a bit of a wimp . They've observed it running towards the stock and the Anatolian runs forward barking and the cheetahs fucks off . Most of the book is giving you all the stats and info about each animal as filler . I think by the jist of the book they make out that it's a succesfull sceme but the only reason it isn't massively widespread is because anatolians are expensive and the program will give them to certain farmers . Sorry not much information but the book is very small and a little shit if I'm honest. The idea is great tho. The word frenemies comes from that they are enemies but the Anatolian is the cheetahs best friends because it stops the xheeysh being killed by scaring it off Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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