The Truth About Positive Dog Training

[neems 2,406]

Who calls it rank drive ?

What your explaining are dogs without function , I'm talking about working dogs who have fully expression of canine behavior with complete prey identification , well worked Bulldogs/ strong dogs when allowed to express to their type are like pussycats around kids

 

The worst type of dog is a fearful driven breed with no outlet for energy , a lot of them are a ticking f***ing time bomb

The problem is the information out there today , a lot of people are told to subdue / lay down the law to high tempered breeds and all their doing is putting a charge in the dog and a large aggressive dog carring a charge against humans is very dangerous animal indeed and a predator like a dog is always going to pick out the weaker member in a group , the child

 

When someone brings a dog here , the first thing I ask is , "have you confronted the dog for biting anything and 90% of the time it's a yeah , nothing to bite so he digs, barks and generally makes himself into a complete asshole to live with , it's as simple as this , A dog needs to bite something it's up to us to assist a dog in expressing this fundemental primal urge, a huge percentage of problem dogs have no direction for its prey instinct (oral inclination)

 

The highest driven dogs in the world are shown what to bite first and foremost,as pups they don't dominate them , they play with them they know if you show them what the prey item is (tug item)the dog will go to the end of the earth to fulfill its drive

And become a very social animal because of that fact

 

Different types of dogs have very different mindsets,some dogs are dominant towards people,I've seen it in under exercised pets and well worked dogs of different breeds.

 

Obviously if the dogs had it's prey drive satisfied,is well exercised and well fed it's less likely to crop up,but it's still there in some dogs.

[Casso 1,261]

 

 

Who calls it rank drive ?

What your explaining are dogs without function , I'm talking about working dogs who have fully expression of canine behavior with complete prey identification , well worked Bulldogs/ strong dogs when allowed to express to their type are like pussycats around kids

 

The worst type of dog is a fearful driven breed with no outlet for energy , a lot of them are a ticking f***ing time bomb

The problem is the information out there today , a lot of people are told to subdue / lay down the law to high tempered breeds and all their doing is putting a charge in the dog and a large aggressive dog carring a charge against humans is very dangerous animal indeed and a predator like a dog is always going to pick out the weaker member in a group , the child

 

When someone brings a dog here , the first thing I ask is , "have you confronted the dog for biting anything and 90% of the time it's a yeah , nothing to bite so he digs, barks and generally makes himself into a complete asshole to live with , it's as simple as this , A dog needs to bite something it's up to us to assist a dog in expressing this fundemental primal urge, a huge percentage of problem dogs have no direction for its prey instinct (oral inclination)

 

The highest driven dogs in the world are shown what to bite first and foremost,as pups they don't dominate them , they play with them they know if you show them what the prey item is (tug item)the dog will go to the end of the earth to fulfill its drive

And become a very social animal because of that fact

Different types of dogs have very different mindsets,some dogs are dominant towards people,I've seen it in under exercised pets and well worked dogs of different breeds.

 

Obviously if the dogs had it's prey drive satisfied,is well exercised and well fed it's less likely to crop up,but it's still there in some dogs.

That's the problem Neens no one can definitely say anything , either there is a theory that works or there isn't , some dogs maybe , some days, so no one really understands and large groups of dogs get banned

 

The problem also is we see dominance in every act of aggression the seed of which could have been sown many years before

Are all acts of aggression dominance or are some fear based ??

[Malt 379]

I'd say some are definitely fear based..

[Casso 1,261]

I'd say some are definitely fear based..

Couldn't agree more mate

[Squeamish5 309]

But how is the ordinary dog-owner to tell the difference? Or, for that matter, the average local 'dog-trainer/ behaviourist', that they consult when their dog shows aggression?

[Casso 1,261]

But how is the ordinary dog-owner to tell the difference? Or, for that matter, the average local 'dog-trainer/ behaviourist', that they consult when their dog shows aggression?

That's an issue in itself because no has a definite answer , it's open to interpretation depending on who you talk too but generally by then it's another dog for the chop

If they can't understand a behavior don't take a risk , an a lot of it is because they don't understand how a dog processes information

[Casso 1,261]

Take the terrier growling out from under the sofa , he only feel safe under the sofa to express the fear he carrys around every day

 

We don't see fear we only see aggression

[neems 2,406]

That's the problem Neens no one can definitely say anything , either there is a theory that works or there isn't , some dogs maybe , some days, so no one really understands and large groups of dogs get banned

 

The problem also is we see dominance in every act of aggression the seed of which could have been sown many years before

Are all acts of aggression dominance or are some fear based ??

 

 

Dominant dogs don't always attack,if that's what you mean by 'aggressive'.

 

I've seen sneaky dominant dogs wait for the coast to become clear before they start to take the piss with a weaker handler,and depending on how that goes try their luck further.

It fits into place very well from where I'm standing.

 

I've also seen dogs made aggressive by the old 'beat them till they bite' method (fear based),and you can tell that dog apart from a genuinely dominant or otherwise stable dog a mile away.

[Casso 1,261]

Do two fighting dogs fight because of domanance , drive or something else

Is there any relationship between drive/ dominance/ temperment

We will end up going round in circles because we haven't challenged any of these definitions

Bulldogs fight / long dog runs / terrier bays /collie herds are they just all an interpretation of the same drive to make contact , the problem is people only see fighting as fighting and nothing else ??

 

Is sneaky dominance a new one , ?

Edited August 11, 2016 by Casso

[neems 2,406]

Do two fighting dogs fight because of domanance , drive or something else

Is there any relationship between drive/ dominance/ temperment

We will end up going round in circles because we haven't challenged any of these definitions

Bulldogs fight / long dog runs / terrier bays /collie herds are they just all an interpretation of the same drive to make contact , the problem is people only see fighting as fighting and nothing else ??

 

Is sneaky dominance a new one , ?

 

A sneaky dominant dog's a dominant dog that's also sneaky,he might wait until he's alone with a weaker person before showing any dominance.

Dogs will obviously fight for lot's of different reasons.

 

No offence but I've got no interest in challenging the definitions of principles used by much smarter and clued up people than you or I,so I'll leave it there.

[Casso 1,261]

 

Do two fighting dogs fight because of domanance , drive or something else

Is there any relationship between drive/ dominance/ temperment

We will end up going round in circles because we haven't challenged any of these definitions

Bulldogs fight / long dog runs / terrier bays /collie herds are they just all an interpretation of the same drive to make contact , the problem is people only see fighting as fighting and nothing else ??

Is sneaky dominance a new one , ?

 

A sneaky dominant dog's a dominant dog that's also sneaky,he might wait until he's alone with a weaker person before showing any dominance.

Dogs will obviously fight for lot's of different reasons.

 

No offence but I've got no interest in challenging the definitions of principles used by much smarter and clued up people than you or I,so I'll leave it there.

Why don't you consider yourself clued up as far as I can see if you have a dog your opinion is as valid as the so called experts , we just don't question the experts enough bud

[Casso 1,261]

Drive is a force of attraction an emotional state to make contact , be it a shot duck floating on a frozen lake , a hare taking off into the distance , a dog trembling outside a hole waiting for a bolt , each breed has it own niche for expressing prey making but they are not set in stone and very interchangeable

, two Bulldogs in the pit are also expressing a drive to make contact or does their behavior fall outside the spectrum of driven behavior some will see dominance , bull type dogs are seen as dominant because their temperment is higher and right there for all to see

When 2 Bulldogs fight /work/ draw we see drive , when curs fight somehow we see something completely different , dominance, how does that work??

Edited August 11, 2016 by Casso

[Squeamish5 309]

 

I've just watched a documentary on youtube about the modern PC way of training/interacting with dogs,some disturbing scenes but worth a watch

 

Neems. So are you saying that you think this film proves that 'Positive Dog Training' is wrong/ ineffective? Or that the method is not a cure-all for dogs with behavioural problems or aggression issues?

Surely the significant factor is the human and their assessment of the dog. And also whether the human actually likes or cares about the dog and wants to exist with it in a comfortable, trusting relationship, whether as a pet, or a dog with a job. And whether or not they're committed to the effort entailed to make that happen.

I watched most of the film.... If I was a dog, of any breed or type, and my owners dressed me in a pink tutu, and even considered, for a second, putting me into any reality TV programme, I would want to bite them.

[neems 2,406]

 

 

Do two fighting dogs fight because of domanance , drive or something else

Is there any relationship between drive/ dominance/ temperment

We will end up going round in circles because we haven't challenged any of these definitions

Bulldogs fight / long dog runs / terrier bays /collie herds are they just all an interpretation of the same drive to make contact , the problem is people only see fighting as fighting and nothing else ??

Is sneaky dominance a new one , ?

A sneaky dominant dog's a dominant dog that's also sneaky,he might wait until he's alone with a weaker person before showing any dominance.

Dogs will obviously fight for lot's of different reasons.

 

No offence but I've got no interest in challenging the definitions of principles used by much smarter and clued up people than you or I,so I'll leave it there.

Why don't you consider yourself clued up as far as I can see if you have a dog your opinion is as valid as the so called experts , we just don't question the experts enough bud

 

 

I'll read the odd book on dog training,but I'd only take seriously either what I've tried and know to work and what more knowledgeable people who i respect teach me.

 

There's no harm in procrastinating,but this isn't a topic that interests me as much as it obviously does yourself,so I'm not really interested in trying redefine established terms etc.

[chook1 184]

How complex are dogs , what's the bottom line , what's the nature of dogs bud

 

A lot of these cults Just see what they want to see and when something crops up they don't understand they make shit up ,

 

Some of the positive crew don't even believe in the Drive concept but they give advice to pet dog owners who have not idea of working dogs, and how harmony can come about through working together if they don't understand drive how can you understand dogs ,

 

Or you tell me what drive is ?

im interested to know how complicated dogs are , I've walked driven dogs past bitches in heat to get to a bite object, ??how does that happen ,

 

What I'm asking is how can there be a stronger pull than reproduction in a dog , if the passing on of genes is in second place , why is the urge to bite not referenced in the slightest by any of your dog training cults ?? Do they really get what dogs are all about

 

 

If you google, there are plenty of trainers who advise working with a dogs drive,

 

a dog’s drives; the major drives that we use in dog obedience training or other types of dog trainings are primarily the;

• Prey-drive
• Defence-drive
• Fight-drive
• Avoidance-drive

http://www.training-your-dog-and-you.com/drive.html

 

and your dogs may well have passed the in season bitch as they were being obedient.