The Truth About Positive Dog Training

[neems 2,406]

 

I think I'd just be on edge all the time tbh flipbull,I've got 5 here the youngest is only 1 and my 2 year old loves dogs a lot more than they love him so there'd be a big learning curve for him at such a young age.

I'll be moving soon,so if we find a place with a good back porch I might have 1 in there of a day time,and the run of downstairs of an night.

 

Bonny looking family and dog you've got there.

Thanks mate.1 and 2 year old might be a bit of a handfull, bit of patience and they will all soon learn. As you say it's more about learning the kids around the dog. Good luck whatever you decide and moving home . As I say mate it works for me, but may not for others.

 

 

Thanks,we move around more than a gang of gypsies so we're all used to it now.

I'm probably just being a fanny tbf,I grew up with some nasty,highly driven dogs in the house and we never had any problems.

[gnipper 6,427]

It's hard to watch the last bit with all the poor kids. As a dog owner I know I will never let my kids and dogs get into those types of situations but as a parent it makes you think about letting any dogs near your kids doesn't it. If any of my dogs ever showed any aggression to a kid I'm sorry but it would be pts.

[skycat 6,173]

It is also necessary to teach kids to respect animals. I remember when a friend came round with her daughter, who was about 5 years old at the time. She was a very difficult kid indeed and liked to blow in dogs' faces, which most people know dogs really hate. She did it to one of my very child-friendly lurchers, who promptly nipped her on the nose. Not hard, barely enough to break the skin, and the child's mother said 'serves her right'. There is no way I would have had that dog put down for teaching that child a lesson, and it worked, for she never did it again. So, whilst I appreciate that a child's safety is paramount, it also behoves the parents to make sure that the dog isn't being tormented by the child.

I wonder how many dogs were at the end of their tether when they attacked a child. Not saying that it is justified, but when you see the way some kids behave these days you have to ask yourself if the parents were really fit to own a dog, or rear a child.

[terryd 8,400]

That is true we used to let the dog lay by us on a blanket as he liked being close as they do. Then one day my middle daughter who should known better (17) came flouncing along and dived on him when he was fast asleep got in his face and started make stupid noises at him.

He woke up startled and gave a little rumble and that was that. She got a bollocking for being stupid and as a precaution he has nothing to lay on and if he wants to get out the way for kip he goes to his crate.

For some that would have been game over for him and what a waste that would have been.

[Casso 1,261]

Neither side have it right , the positive or dominance mob unless you address the fact the prey making / prey instinct is the facility through which dogs bond and make themselves social to fit in their pack be it a household or group of dogs

 

Once a dogs prey instinct is activated and he understands what he's all about and what prey is , he don't need to be dominated or put in place because he tunes into other members of his pack us included and makes HIMSELF fall into line , essentially he wants what we want

 

Going through doors and eating before dogs all that bullshit is completely irrelevant and only goes to show how little folk understand about dogs

 

On the other hand offering titbits as a way of controlling prey instinct goes out the window too

 

Don't be fooled by either crowd open your eyes and see that a seasoned working dog is the easiest animal in the world too control because all his natural inclinations are aligned through us that's what makes him social .

 

A dog must learn what to bite in order for it to discriminate what not to bite

Edited August 6, 2016 by Casso

[Malt 379]

It is also necessary to teach kids to respect animals. I remember when a friend came round with her daughter, who was about 5 years old at the time. She was a very difficult kid indeed and liked to blow in dogs' faces, which most people know dogs really hate. She did it to one of my very child-friendly lurchers, who promptly nipped her on the nose. Not hard, barely enough to break the skin, and the child's mother said 'serves her right'. There is no way I would have had that dog put down for teaching that child a lesson, and it worked, for she never did it again. So, whilst I appreciate that a child's safety is paramount, it also behoves the parents to make sure that the dog isn't being tormented by the child.

I wonder how many dogs were at the end of their tether when they attacked a child. Not saying that it is justified, but when you see the way some kids behave these days you have to ask yourself if the parents were really fit to own a dog, or rear a child.

Spot on.. I was brought up around 'house dogs' and the first thing I said to my kids when we got a puppy for the first time was that if they ever antagonised the dog to the point where it turned on them the dog would have to be destroyed through no fault of its own and it would be their fault. I also told them that any dog has the potential to bite if disrespected so the onus was on them to act accordingly around them.

[terryd 8,400]

Neither side have it right , the positive or dominance mob unless you address the fact the prey making / prey instinct is the facility through which dogs bond and make themselves social to fit in their pack be it a household or group of dogs

 

Once a dogs prey instinct is activated and he understands what he's all about and what prey is , he don't need to be dominated or put in place because he tunes into other members of his pack us included and makes HIMSELF fall into line , essentially he wants what we want

 

Going through doors and eating before dogs all that bullshit is completely irrelevant and only goes to show how little folk understand about dogs

 

On the other hand offering titbits as a way of controlling prey instinct goes out the window too

 

Don't be fooled by either crowd open your eyes and see that a seasoned working dog is the easiest animal in the world too control because all his natural inclinations are aligned through us that's what makes him social .

 

 

I have decided to go some where down the middle. I packed in treats and now he just gets a good boy and a pat on the head on the other hand I never throw my weight about with him or clout him. I try to be just firm and fair and clear and keep cool. I some times fail on that bit but not often. Simple little things like jumping in the boot. He was good at it and I used to lob a treat in and up he went. But then some times he would cast his nose over the boot to see what I had put in and if it was worth the effort jumping in and if not sit on his butt. So now I trained him to hop on a box on command so he knows exactly what I want and if he doesn't jump in the boot on being asked once I just put my hand under his butt and shove him up. Now he has started jumping in when told and no treats. Lots of trainers on line say the dog thinks this and the dog thinks that. But at the end of the day no one really knows what they think. You can only go by what results you get by doing what ever I guess. I often read things and compare with my experiences with my dog and if it tallies up then its worth reading

Edited August 6, 2016 by terryd

[Casso 1,261]

 

 

Neither side have it right , the positive or dominance mob unless you address the fact the prey making / prey instinct is the facility through which dogs bond and make themselves social to fit in their pack be it a household or group of dogs

 

Once a dogs prey instinct is activated and he understands what he's all about and what prey is , he don't need to be dominated or put in place because he tunes into other members of his pack us included and makes HIMSELF fall into line , essentially he wants what we want

 

Going through doors and eating before dogs all that bullshit is completely irrelevant and only goes to show how little folk understand about dogs

 

On the other hand offering titbits as a way of controlling prey instinct goes out the window too

 

Don't be fooled by either crowd open your eyes and see that a seasoned working dog is the easiest animal in the world too control because all his natural inclinations are aligned through us that's what makes him social .

 

I have decided to go some where down the middle. I packed in treats and now he just gets a good boy and a pat on the head on the other hand I never throw my weight about with him or clout him. I try to be just firm and fair and clear and keep cool. I some times fail on that bit but not often. Simple little things like jumping in the boot. He was good at it and I used to lob a treat in and up he went. But then some times he would cast his nose over the boot to see what I had put in and if it was worth the effort jumping in and if not sit on his butt. So now I trained him to hop on a box on command so he knows exactly what I want and if he doesn't jump in the boot on being asked once I just put my hand under his butt and shove him up. Now he has started jumping in when told and no treats. Lots of trainers on line say the dog thinks this and the dog thinks that. But at the end of the day no one really knows what they think. You can only go by what results you get by doing what ever I guess. I often read things and compare with my experiences with my dog and if it tallies up then its worth reading

Eventually the dog will just do what you want because what you want he wants , it will feel good for him if it feels good for you , he makes himself social to fit with you

 

Box training is a great tool for teaching impulse control , in effect what it's doing is teaching the dog the less I do the more I get , you seem to be on the ball with your training mate , an impulse controlled mutt can deal with higher rates of stimulation without breaking into instinctive behavior its something I start with pups it's worth while mate

 

As far as thinking goes when we project thoughts into a dogs head we will only see defiance at times , for me the dog is going by feel and if it doesn't feel right for him he won't do it , a trainers job is to make a dog feel conifident in what he's doing only then can the mutt fully grasp the exercise , a conifident dog is an interested one his temperment is right there to work with and eager to learn

[terryd 8,400]

Funny you should mention impulse control. A rabbit hopped across a lane this morning in front of us as we walked down him on his lead. It hopped through the sheep wire then cut across the corner of the field and he just watched it no surge on the lead nothing. If some one had seen him they would think thats dogs rubbish but I know different

As for on top of my training I wish but I do try

[neems 2,406]

It is also necessary to teach kids to respect animals. I remember when a friend came round with her daughter, who was about 5 years old at the time. She was a very difficult kid indeed and liked to blow in dogs' faces, which most people know dogs really hate. She did it to one of my very child-friendly lurchers, who promptly nipped her on the nose. Not hard, barely enough to break the skin, and the child's mother said 'serves her right'. There is no way I would have had that dog put down for teaching that child a lesson, and it worked, for she never did it again. So, whilst I appreciate that a child's safety is paramount, it also behoves the parents to make sure that the dog isn't being tormented by the child.

I wonder how many dogs were at the end of their tether when they attacked a child. Not saying that it is justified, but when you see the way some kids behave these days you have to ask yourself if the parents were really fit to own a dog, or rear a child.

 

I agree children should be taught manners right from the get go,but if a dog of mine sunk it's teeth into any child's face for any reason it's feet literally wouldn't touch the ground.

 

When you say a child's safety is paramount,what do you actually mean?

To me that means the child does not get bitten,no excuses,if you can't trust the child or the dog they never meet,let alone get face to face.

[neems 2,406]

Neither side have it right , the positive or dominance mob unless you address the fact the prey making / prey instinct is the facility through which dogs bond and make themselves social to fit in their pack be it a household or group of dogs

 

Once a dogs prey instinct is activated and he understands what he's all about and what prey is , he don't need to be dominated or put in place because he tunes into other members of his pack us included and makes HIMSELF fall into line , essentially he wants what we want

 

Going through doors and eating before dogs all that bullshit is completely irrelevant and only goes to show how little folk understand about dogs

 

On the other hand offering titbits as a way of controlling prey instinct goes out the window too

 

Don't be fooled by either crowd open your eyes and see that a seasoned working dog is the easiest animal in the world too control because all his natural inclinations are aligned through us that's what makes him social .

 

A dog must learn what to bite in order for it to discriminate what not to bite

 

That's not true of all dogs,some dogs are dominant towards people.

They might not try to dominate their owner,who they've submitted to since puppyhood,but they may see themselves as higher ranking than small children and bite them as a correction or over food/space/affection.

 

They call it rank drive,I can't recall ever seeing a rank driven sighthound,but a lot of Akitas,huskies,samoyeds etc are that way inclined.

[Casso 1,261]

Who calls it rank drive ?

What your explaining are dogs without function , I'm talking about working dogs who have fully expression of canine behavior with complete prey identification , well worked Bulldogs/ strong dogs when allowed to express to their type are like pussycats around kids

 

The worst type of dog is a fearful driven breed with no outlet for energy , a lot of them are a ticking f***ing time bomb

The problem is the information out there today , a lot of people are told to subdue / lay down the law to high tempered breeds and all their doing is putting a charge in the dog and a large aggressive dog carring a charge against humans is very dangerous animal indeed and a predator like a dog is always going to pick out the weaker member in a group , the child

 

When someone brings a dog here , the first thing I ask is , "have you confronted the dog for biting anything and 90% of the time it's a yeah , nothing to bite so he digs, barks and generally makes himself into a complete asshole to live with , it's as simple as this , A dog needs to bite something it's up to us to assist a dog in expressing this fundemental primal urge, a huge percentage of problem dogs have no direction for its prey instinct (oral inclination)

 

The highest driven dogs in the world are shown what to bite first and foremost,as pups they don't dominate them , they play with them they know if you show them what the prey item is (tug item)the dog will go to the end of the earth to fulfill its drive

And become a very social animal because of that fact

[Casso 1,261]

Would the multi million dollar dog training industry even exist if people worked their dogs

, never seen an industry with so many snake oil salesmen in it because folks can't pin point the truth ,

 

they think they have it figured out until the dog does something they can't understand or it flips out , they then start making up stuff , projecting thoughts or saying the dog is crazy

 

Life for a dog is not like a box of choclates, it's more like a can of coke, stimulate it enough without release and your going to get a massive build up of energy , if you could let the energy out regular you won't get the massive volcanic explosion when the energy does finally get free

Working dog owners know the truth don't be hoodwinked by snake oil sellers who have built an empire by rejecting canine energy as a bad thing

[chook1 184]

Would the multi million dollar dog training industry even exist if people worked their dogs

, never seen an industry with so many snake oil salesmen in it because folks can't pin point the truth ,

 

they think they have it figured out until the dog does something they can't understand or it flips out , they then start making up stuff , projecting thoughts or saying the dog is crazy

 

Life for a dog is not like a box of choclates, it's more like a can of coke, stimulate it enough without release and your going to get a massive build up of energy , if you could let the energy out regular you won't get the massive volcanic explosion when the energy does finally get free

Working dog owners know the truth don't be hoodwinked by snake oil sellers who have built an empire by rejecting canine energy as a bad thing

 

 

Sorry but yes it would still exist.

 

Dogs are a lot more complex than that and even the best dog trainers in the world including those who work their dogs

can fail with a dog.

[Casso 1,261]

How complex are dogs , what's the bottom line , what's the nature of dogs bud

 

A lot of these cults Just see what they want to see and when something crops up they don't understand they make shit up ,

 

Some of the positive crew don't even believe in the Drive concept but they give advice to pet dog owners who have not idea of working dogs, and how harmony can come about through working together if they don't understand drive how can you understand dogs ,

 

Or you tell me what drive is ?

im interested to know how complicated dogs are , I've walked driven dogs past bitches in heat to get to a bite object, ??how does that happen ,

 

What I'm asking is how can there be a stronger pull than reproduction in a dog , if the passing on of genes is in second place , why is the urge to bite not referenced in the slightest by any of your dog training cults ?? Do they really get what dogs are all about

Edited August 11, 2016 by Casso