CCI Shotshell rimfire round.

[COMPO 54]

There was an old 9mm garden gun for sale in my local shop about a year ago and he also sells the 9mm shot shell cartridges, wouldn't it be worth keeping 1 of these guns for such jobs??

 

i would have thought they would be classed as shotgun cart's as well, as the only shot shells that need a Fac according to the law book i am currently reading are ones that have less than 5 pellets or the pellets are bigger than .36

 

Compo

 

 

You are about up to scratch with the firearm laws as I am with computer problems......

 

 

I cant lose this one.......................

 

 

well Bill Gates

 

Section 1(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 creates offences connected with being in possession of a firearm to which this section applies without a firearm certificate. It states:

1(1) Subject to any exemption under this Act, it is an offence for a person -

 

(a) to have in his possession, or to purchase or acquire, a firearm to which this section applies without holding a firearm certificate in force at the time, or otherwise than as authorised by the certificate;

( to have in his possession, or to purchase or acquire, any ammunition to which this section applies without holding a firearm certificate in force at the time, or otherwise than as authorised by such certificate, or in quantities in excess of those so authorised.

 

Notes : Section 1(1)(a) (above) shall not apply to a person who has in his possession any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system (now a prohibited weapon) where he has applied before 30th April 2004 for a firearm certificate under Part 2 of that Act and either that application is still being processed or any appeal in respect of it has not been determined.

 

1(2) It is an offence for a person to fail to comply with a condition subject to which a firearm certificate is held by him.

 

1(3) This section applies to every firearm except shotguns or air weapons.

 

Notes : Subsection (3) (above) is expanded further in the shotguns & air weapons hypertext links documents - which details and explains sub-sections (3)(a) & (3)(.

 

1(4) This section applies to any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely -

 

(a) cartridges containing 5 or more shots, none of which exceed .36 inch in diameter;( ammunition for an air gun, air rifle or air pistol; AND

© blank cartridges not more than one inch in diameter measured immediately in front of the rim or cannelure of the base of the cartridge.

 

Notes :

(i) Any weapon or ammunition to which this section applies is commonly known as a 'section 1 firearm'.

(ii) This is an absolute offence, therefore no mens rea (intent) is required, only knowledge of the existence of the item, as opposed to its nature, see R v Hussain for more.

(iii) Index to Firearms offences

(ivi) Interpretation - section 57 Firearms Act 1968.

[COMPO 54]

as you can see above i was right thats from section 1 of the firearms act, any cartridge with more than 5 shot of which none are greater than .36 are shotgun cart's....so the shotshell's you mention should be classed as shotgun cartridges!!

[Deker 3,478]

Come on Sprags/Compo I'm waiting for the next installment.

 

I'll be honest, off the top of my head I don't know the answer to this one, the 68 Act still forms the basis of current legislation but there has been a bucket load of changes to it since, so if you 2 could sort it out between you it will save me looking it all up.

 

Cheers

 

Deker

 

One point of interest is that under the 68 Act you did not need a SGC to buy Shotgun cartridges (or FAC) anyone could walk in off the street and buy them.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Deker

[Geoff.C 0]

Going back to the starter of this thread,has moletrapper located any shotshells yet?

The old BSA my lad has is classed as a shotgun,as it is now smoothbore. It's a single shot bolt action. He buys the shells for it on a shotgun ticket.

I was talking to our firearms officer at the end of September, when I had my renewal visit. He was happy about the arrangement,and never mentioned the shotshells needing a FAC.

[COMPO 54]

Come on Sprags/Compo I'm waiting for the next installment.

 

I'll be honest, off the top of my head I don't know the answer to this one, the 68 Act still forms the basis of current legislation but there has been a bucket load of changes to it since, so if you 2 could sort it out between you it will save me looking it all up.

 

Cheers

 

Deker

 

One point of interest is that under the 68 Act you did not need a SGC to buy Shotgun cartridges (or FAC) anyone could walk in off the street and buy them.

 

 

The above that i cut was from a current legal database and that is the current legislation regarding section 1 firearms and ammunition and as you can see the definition it gives seems to include the shotshells mentioned as not being section 1 ammo.....................therefore not requiring a FAC to purchase/possess

[Deker 3,478]

Come on Sprags/Compo I'm waiting for the next installment.

 

I'll be honest, off the top of my head I don't know the answer to this one, the 68 Act still forms the basis of current legislation but there has been a bucket load of changes to it since, so if you 2 could sort it out between you it will save me looking it all up.

 

Cheers

 

Deker

 

One point of interest is that under the 68 Act you did not need a SGC to buy Shotgun cartridges (or FAC) anyone could walk in off the street and buy them.

 

 

The above that i cut was from a current legal database and that is the current legislation regarding section 1 firearms and ammunition and as you can see the definition it gives seems to include the shotshells mentioned as not being section 1 ammo.....................therefore not requiring a FAC to purchase/possess

 

 

Compo

This is an interesting question and as I admitted I don't know the answer. I also appreciate your response and I'm not disputing it at all..... BUT, an awful lot of the 68 is now dead and buried...are you sure this bit is still current...don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it isn't, I'm just saying are you sure! Can you please quote the source (the legal database). I am quite familiar with the Firearms Acts 1968-1997, Anti Social Behaviour Act 2004, Countryside Act 1981, Deer Act 1991, Regulatory Reform (Game) Order 2007, Health & Safety Act 1974, Highways Act 1980, enough, enough......oh yes...... and the Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police 2002.... but I freely abmit I don't know them all word perfect. I'm also curious about your background...is this an area that just interests you or are you more actively involved in the legal business. Tell me to mind my own business if you like or respond by PM if you don't want the world to know. As a matter of interest I know quite a lot about these laws as I am involved in Game & Vermin control (not pest), I'm Secretary of a Home Office Approved Fullbore club at Bisley.. and more...., so I need to know a lot about the laws.

 

Cheers

Deker

[COMPO 54]

Deker i will send you a PM, i think Sprags knows what will be in the PM anyway

[COMPO 54]

Me and Deker have discussed this in PM and

 

I have sent an e-mail to a firearms licensing department asking these questions and hoping for a sensible answer in english

 

Compo

[mole trapper 1,693]

Going back to the starter of this thread,has moletrapper located any shotshells yet?

No luck as yet, rang sportsman who were to busy to talk to me, they promised to ring back and didnt.

Will try and find time to ring GMK monday to see if they can tell me anywhere close that they have shipped them to recently.

[dytkos 17,818]

Anyone know where i can buy these, they are great when i have pigeon or squirrel jobs in confined spaces like lofts or chimneys, had loads of them, but recently had a lot of call for them and suddenly find myself out of them.

Can not buy them from my usual supplier as he no longer stocks cci.

Got to give CCI their due, they make some usefull stuff, forinstance the 30 ft lbs sub,s i was trying back in the summer on a couple of rabbit jobs where a normal sub would have been to much gun, the only thing against those was that they were solids.

 

Regards MT.

 

There used to be a 9mm garden gun, like a pistol with a long barrel and a removable stock that was for sale a while ago. They fire a 9mm shotgun type cartridge. These could still be available for less than a couple of hundred quid.

[Deker 3,478]

Going back to the starter of this thread,has moletrapper located any shotshells yet?

No luck as yet, rang sportsman who were to busy to talk to me, they promised to ring back and didnt.

Will try and find time to ring GMK monday to see if they can tell me anywhere close that they have shipped them to recently.

 

 

Moletrapper

 

GMK.co.uk

 

Email them.....they will usually get back in a day or two. Federal (GMK) and Winchester also make shotshells (probably a few others as well)

 

Cheers

 

Deker

[mole trapper 1,693]

Going back to the starter of this thread,has moletrapper located any shotshells yet?

No luck as yet, rang sportsman who were to busy to talk to me, they promised to ring back and didnt.

Will try and find time to ring GMK monday to see if they can tell me anywhere close that they have shipped them to recently.

 

 

Moletrapper

 

GMK.co.uk

 

Email them.....they will usually get back in a day or two. Federal (GMK) and Winchester also make shotshells (probably a few others as well)

 

Cheers

 

Deker

 

Cheers for that Deker.

[Matt 160]

MT, try Ladds at Crediton, or failing that, Rommel down at Helston. Its the kind of thing that dealers have at the back of the cupboard.

[COMPO 54]

Just cartridges have the below on sale online

 

http://www.justcartridges.com/prices/rifle.pdf

 

there are .22 shotshells on there

[Guest Lord B]

Give Andy at Avalon a call I'm sure he'll have some. We used to shift quite a few in our place. Got about 500 in at the moment but we do use them quite a lot. Remmington would be my choice, in a small green and yellow card box, not cheap though....