Lead Shot In.....

[SportingShooter 0]

This site doesn't stipulate where it draws it's information from but I understand the MLAGB to be quite an authority on MLs.

 

Interesting point about half way down - "Smooth bore reproduction long arms are classified as shotguns even though you intend to fire a single solid projectile from them and not to fire shot. They can be held on a Shotgun Certificate."

 

http://www.mlagb.com/rifle-section/#

[CharlieT 32]

Well found SS. That's my interpretation out of the window.

[Underdog 2,337]

This is the thing and how I ponder it.

I can not buy loaded ammunition of a single projectile or less than five shot unless I have a licence to do so. As assembled cartridges.

But.

I do not need a licence to buy;

1, rifled slugs.

2,ball.

 

As I won't be assembling any slugs or ball into loaded ammunition I am not breaking any laws and as a muzzleloader does not use ammunition as set out in law I would not be outside of any law if I shot them out of a muzzleloader as there is no distinction of a muzzleloader smoothbore and the use of single projectiles.

No?

[SportingShooter 0]

This is the thing and how I ponder it.

I can not buy loaded ammunition of a single projectile or less than five shot unless I have a licence to do so. As assembled cartridges.

But.

I do not need a licence to buy;

1, rifled slugs.

2,ball.

 

As I won't be assembling any slugs or ball into loaded ammunition I am not breaking any laws and as a muzzleloader does not use ammunition as set out in law I would not be outside of any law if I shot them out of a muzzleloader as there is no distinction of a muzzleloader smoothbore and the use of single projectiles.

No?

 

From what I've been reading, a muzzleloading shotgun or smoothbore musket firing a single ball is fine and can be held on a shotgun certificate.

 

A muzzle loading rifle, either antique or modern, if it is to be fired it must be on a Firearms Certificate with the appropriate condition and you can fire shot out of it if you wish...

 

Provided you aren't loading single projectiles into "ammunition", i.e. cartridges then you can possess and fire them through a smoothbore muzzleloader with impunity.

 

You could quite legally load a muzzle loading shotgun with 10mm balls and be perfectly legal, whereas in a shotgun cartridge, they would fall under Section 1.

[SportingShooter 0]

Well found SS. That's my interpretation out of the window.

 

It took me a while! I had to wade through the pages of American black powder enthusiasts shouting "YEEHA!"

[Underdog 2,337]

Thanks for your assistance.

It was good.

 

U.

[Underdog 2,337]

Taking it further then.

One could shoot a deer under the conditions set out for the use of smoothbore and deer with a muzzleloader and ball or slug.

No?

 

U.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Underdog

[CharlieT 32]

We have established that a MZ is a shotgun for the purposes of the Firearms act and that one can hold ball & slugs on a SGC.

 

Therefore, the only other legislation that comes into play is the Deer Act. As the Deer Act makes no mention of MZ's, we can only interpret what is written concerning shotguns.

 

One must use a shotgun of at least 12 bore (that's the easy bit) and a non spherical ball, ie a slug. The only fly in the ointment is that the act only talks about the cartridge, so it could be argued that as a MZ does not use a cartridge it would not be legal.

 

The Act states:

 

(2)Subject to subsection (3) below, a person to whom this section applies shall not be guilty of an offence under section 4(2)(a) above by reason of the use, for the purpose of taking or killing any deer on any land, of any smooth-bore gun of not less gauge than 12 bore which is loaded with—

(a)a cartridge containing a single non-spherical projectile weighing not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains); or

 

(a cartridge purporting to contain shot each of which is .203 inches (5.16 millimetres) in diameter (that is to say, size AAA).

[Underdog 2,337]

So this is not illegal?

 

[CharlieT 32]

As I said in my last post, as the act only talks about cartridge it could be argued that using anything that is not a cartridge is illegal.

[Underdog 2,337]

As I said in my last post, as the act only talks about cartridge it could be argued that using anything that is not a cartridge is illegal.

Hmmm, the act as it is written is clear on what is considered illegal.

By ommitting a method that meets certain criteria how can it be automatically illegal?

 

For instance, archery equipment is not allowed to be used for hunting but how the law is worded catapults are not mentioned so not illegal. Not mentioned as a legal means also by the way !.

 

U.

[CharlieT 32]

The act is indeed clear on what is illegal.

The Deer Act makes it an offense to use a shotgun to take deer, except under certain circumstances (humane dispatch & section 7)

 

Therefore, except in the prescribed circumstances (HD & S7), it is illegal to use a shotgun and when using one to take deer under section 7 of the Deer Act, the exemption which applies here, the act states a cartridge. Which is why I suggest that only a cartridge is legal.

 

Of course the Act also makes the use of a cartridge illegal too (except under the exemptions mentioned above).

 

 

 

SCHEDULE 2

Section 4. PROHIBITED FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION Firearms

1. Any smooth-bore gun.

2. Any rifle having a calibre of less than .240 inches or a muzzle energy of less than 2,305 joules (1,700 foot pounds).

3. Any air gun, air rifle or air pistol. Ammunition

4. Any cartridge for use in a smooth-bore gun.

5. Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.

[Underdog 2,337]

Good points and I agree.

Thank you very much for your help.

Factual and clear, also patient.

 

Thank you to Sporting shooter too.

U ?

[CharlieT 32]

U

 

Great debate, I enjoy such discussions - thank you.

 

C

[SportingShooter 0]

Indeed, I like getting into the finer points, for once it is relatively clear. Usually it comes down to untested interpretation with firearms law.

 

Nothing to stop you shooting foxes with a slug from a smoothbore ML, UD