Lead Shot In.....

[Underdog 2,337]

Muzzle-loaders.

Just how is law written that prevents the use of lead shot in a MUZZLELOADER for duck shoot?

 

I have only noticed law pointing to cartridges and thus cartridge breech loaders.

 

Also, where the law is clear on the use of slug and single ball loads in shotguns just where are the restrictions in law that likewise limit the use of single projectiles in muzzle-loaders?

 

I would really appreciate clarity on this and opinions alone won't really help.

 

Thanks.

 

U.

[SportingShooter 0]

I suppose it would depend on the muzzleloader. Some are clearly rifles, some are clearly shotguns but I suppose some may use large bore muzzleloading rifles to fire shot.

 

Looking at the Welsh regs, the section title is contradictory in that it says "cartridges";

 

But the actual wording is "No person shall use lead shot for the purpose of shooting with a shot gun - "

 

With the definition within the regulations as

• "shot gun" ("gwn cetrys") means a smooth-bore gun but does not include any shot-gun chambered for 9 millimetre or smaller rim-fire cartridges;

For me, that would cover a muzzle-loading shotgun. As for a muzzle-loader rifle, loaded with lead shot, it would appear to not be restricted in any way.

 

Interesting food for thought.

[Underdog 2,337]

Thanks.

But, do the welsh regs define a shotgun?

[CharlieT 32]

The Firearms Act is applicable to Wales.

 

As shotgun in the act is defined as a smooth bore gun with a barrel not less than 24". Therefore, in law, a muzzle loader is a shotgun.

[SportingShooter 0]

Thanks.

But, do the welsh regs define a shotgun?

 

The definition on my post was straight from the Regs

 

Pretty much identical to that of S.2 of the '68 Firearms Act, apart from the 24" part.

[Underdog 2,337]

Where do I find these statutes and not for/just Wales?

 

Thank you.

 

U.

[SportingShooter 0]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/

 

or

 

https://basc.org.uk/shooting/

[Underdog 2,337]

Thanks but I don't know how to search on the archive and the basc wont work ?

 

U.

[CharlieT 32]

Just type Firearms Act 1968 or lead shot into the title box and press enter. No need to type any other parameters in and then select the relevant link to bring up the document.

[Underdog 2,337]

Thanks it finally worked.

 

It does not seem to refer to cartridges at all.

 

So I can use a 22 shot shell or a 9mm.

 

Makes sense as no alternative is available.

 

It's a shame a clause was not provided for muzzle-loaders ?.

 

How about ball from a smoothbore muzzle-loaders?

 

Any clarity on that?

 

U.

[CharlieT 32]

Remembering that the Firearms Act defines a muzzle loader as a shotgun.

 

It comes under the Firearms Act Section1 (4) (a)

 

 

(4)This section applies to any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely:—

(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;

(ammunition for an air gun, air rifle or air pistol; and

©blank cartridges not more than one inch in diameter measured immediately in front of the rim or cannelure of the base of the cartridge.

Edited July 20, 2016 by CharlieT

[Underdog 2,337]

Remembering that the Firearms Act defines a muzzle loader as a shotgun.

 

It comes under the Firearms Act Section1 (4) (a)

 

(4)

This section applies to any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely:

(a)

cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;

(

ammunition for an air gun, air rifle or air pistol; and

©

blank cartridges not more than one inch in diameter measured immediately in front of the rim or cannelure of the base of the cartridge.

Yes but a muzzleloader does not use ammunition,loaded ammunition. So that legislation does not apply!

[CharlieT 32]

The Firearms Act describes ammunition so-

 

 

 

(2)In this Act, the expression “ammunition” means ammunition for any firearm and includes grenades, bombs and other like missiles, whether capable of use with a firearm or not, and also includes prohibited ammunition.

 

 

 

 

The HO guidelines state-

 

2.7 “Shotgun” means a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which: a) has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter. The length of the barrel is measured from the muzzle to the point of ignition (breech face). For a muzzle-loading gun, the point of ignition may be taken as the touch-hole or nipple that is nearest to the breach;

 

iii) Shotgun cartridges 2.53 A shotgun certificate is not required to possess or acquire shotgun cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds .36 inch in diameter. All ordinary shot cartridges are covered by this description. However, a shotgun certificate (or firearm certificate authorising possession of a section 1 shotgun) is normally required to purchase shotgun cartridges. All single bulleted ammunition, for example solid slug, spherical ball or projectiles for birdscaring equipment, is subject to the requirement for a firearm certificate.

 

That's the best I can do.

My neighbor has his ML on S1 to allow him to shoot ball, perhaps your best way forward is to speak to your licensing manager.

[Underdog 2,337]

Thanks I appreciate your kind assistance.

 

I see the above as an indication that a muzzleloader shot gun by its nature of not using ammunition and there not being any restrictions on the possession of balls and no restrictions of taking game or vermin with lead ball that a muzzleloader can indeed of smoothbore shoot a single ball.

No yes? Thoughts any one?

[CharlieT 32]

I, rightly or wrongly, read it the other way.

A solid lead ball becomes ammunition once it's loaded in a MZ and once loaded it becomes S1.

 

Back in 2008, FELWG were approached by Bill Harriman to authorise the use of muzzle loading rifles to shoot fox, they had in 2001 refused to sanction their use on deer.

 

Now I realise that referred to rifles but it poses the question, if I'm right and ball becomes S1 when loaded then would the above apply to a MZ shotgun loaded with S1 ball.

 

A proper can of worms !!!