1920S Film

[fat man 4,741]

 

 

My opinion on these dogs is they all has their day they had useful purpose at one time but not anymore it's the terriers that do the work now whether they be black ones or white ones. I could never see the attraction for a big lump around a dig (except for me leaning on the shovel lol) it just my opinion but I suppose everyone to their own.

I agree Chesney but lucky enough there is still men that keep the line alive, which should be done so that they don't be lost to the KC crap you see today. Terriers done the work back in the day also but as Neil said the majority of terriers that provided the game for the trials never got a certificate as they wouldn't work as required in a shore, mainly because they were too hard and had to be lifted. Quite ironic Imo. Fox dogs won more certificates something I never agreed with. The terriers should have been judged properly in a bank on a dig but there's no point in crying over spilt milk because it fell on deaf ears anyway.

I see where your coming from general and goodluck to the men trying to preserve those working lines of wheatens trying to keep it separate from the kc lines must be a battle alone. Theres mass production of blackdogs about at the moment and most of it for coin only hope it doesn't lead to the ruination of some very strong lines.

 

Like the wheatens Chesney there are good men keeping lines of black dogs that test there dogs to the last so no breeding dirt.There is a mass output of black dogs about but there has to be a market for them,no buyers,no sellers,people are easily led by big names and such but they have not a clue as to what they are really geting.I was never into strong dogs even though i will admit i liked to see them work but that was a long,long time ago,like everything else there was men that used to work strong dogs properly and then there was the men who got strong dogs a bad name by abusing what they were bred for.The day of the strong dogs around a dig is long since gone and maybe all for the better.I agree with the General in relation to the digging dogs in that 90% of the terriers that qualified at trials were just fox dogs,out and out yappers where as the dogs that actually worked and provided the game to run the trials was at home in kennells.

[p3d 879]

 

My opinion on these dogs is they all has their day they had useful purpose at one time but not anymore it's the terriers that do the work now whether they be black ones or white ones. I could never see the attraction for a big lump around a dig (except for me leaning on the shovel lol) it just my opinion but I suppose everyone to their own.

I agree Chesney but lucky enough there is still men that keep the line alive, which should be done so that they don't be lost to the KC crap you see today. Terriers done the work back in the day also but as Neil said the majority of terriers that provided the game for the trials never got a certificate as they wouldn't work as required in a shore, mainly because they were too hard and had to be lifted. Quite ironic Imo. Fox dogs won more certificates something I never agreed with. The terriers should have been judged properly in a bank on a dig but there's no point in crying over spilt milk because it fell on deaf ears anyway.

 

 

Have to agree,

 

The man who designed and printed the certificates and was one of the founder members told me he never rated the sounder trial.

It was well known that a lot of sounder terriers that were awarded certificates at trials were useless in the field.

A couple of minutes in a shore is no comparison to actual work.

 

The trials were all about the strong dogs and it was a competition that could give an idea of how a strong dog MIGHT perform in the field.

I always though they were as much a social event, similar to a good working dog show today.

Time to catch up with like minded terriermen and exchange ideas about breeding and techniques.

 

A different time, it is in the past from a hunting point of view.

 

The Kerry, Wheaten and Glen are different branches off the same root.

And this root stock is not too far back in history, perhaps even one generation.

Our fathers would have been alive when these 3 were all taken from the one litter, that is not history.

IMO the Kerry and Glen were selected for the ring because of Coat colour and dwarfism.

 

The Wheaten was ignored as the Cur cousin of both (from a showmans viewpoint) until nearly the second world war. (1930's I believe).

The Irish had to have a few terriers to compete in the ring with our English relations, so why not make up a few breeds (strains).

 

One good thing about the trials is that it concentrated men's ideas about working strains

and produced good working kennels and for that we should be thankful.

They also needed good terriers to dig the quarry and from these kennels we have some excellent Irish terriers today.

[chesney 5,433]

I suppose it was a better way for terriermen to meet up rather than stand around a show ring lol.

[p3d 879]

I suppose it was a better way for terriermen to meet up rather than stand around a show ring lol.

 

It depends on the show, if you pick the right working dog show you can meet likeminded people.

That is as much as you can expect

[Mary 352]

Neil, in previous post you say dog done 6 minutes and was given half an hour down time in between, how many times would a dog be entered in a trial?

[THE GENERAL 1,982]

Rule 9. No dog to be run more than twice at a trial, 3 minutes to be the time for the second run if the dog has already done his time or most of it.

 

Rule 10. Dogs to be re-run for best of day only, except in exceptional circumstances.

[jiggy 3,209]

At one time west highland terriers worked and for all we know worked well everybody knows that most of these breeds have been destroyed by shows its common knowledge but they all worked one time and nobody can say for definite how good or bad any of them were in the 20,s. An old man once told me! or i read it in a book is not an accurate description because most people cant be truthful about whats in their own yard never mind anybody elses

[THE GENERAL 1,982]

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in a trial, only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

Edited July 28, 2016 by THE GENERAL

[jiggy 3,209]

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

[jiggy 3,209]

 

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed, theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

[THE GENERAL 1,982]

 

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

I never said you did, it was just the way I worded it hypothetically speaking. I've a friend who's uncles bred and worked Kerry's for years and apparently they had good ones but I've seen no proof so the jury is out on that one. There was bound the be some good in both, Kerry's were good at biting other dogs and people but I don't think they would have got a cert for them traits lol.

[fat man 4,741]

 

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

 

I agree with what you say about the shows killing the working wheatens but it was also the laws enforced on us that are as much to blame,one time we could park up along side a busy road and get all the gear for digging plus terrier and a strong dog or maybe 2 and walk down a field and nobody gave a bollox,nowadays the law would be on you in little or no time and even if you were not breaking the law and were genuinely at legal pest control[what we all do]they would still accuse you of doing something your not especially if you had a strong dog in tow.I know of several men who kept and worked strong dogs but none of these men keep them any more simply because its too much hassle when out in the country.

[jiggy 3,209]

 

 

 

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

I agree with what you say about the shows killing the working wheatens but it was also the laws enforced on us that are as much to blame,one time we could park up along side a busy road and get all the gear for digging plus terrier and a strong dog or maybe 2 and walk down a field and nobody gave a bollox,nowadays the law would be on you in little or no time and even if you were not breaking the law and were genuinely at legal pest control[what we all do]they would still accuse you of doing something your not especially if you had a strong dog in tow.I know of several men who kept and worked strong dogs but none of these men keep them any more simply because its too much hassle when out in the country.

i agree with you fatman but down our way nobody would even know what breed a wheaten is they think they are cute cuddly bear but when you have a pure pitbull or bullcross or any greyhound cross they think you are up to no good and most of that is from gunclubs or farmers or coursing men thinking you are after hares when you are just doing a bit of legal foxing. Little do they know a first cross wheaten or bull isnt going to be a 3 out of 3 hare dog or maybe 1 out of 100 for that matter.

[fat man 4,741]

 

 

 

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

I agree with what you say about the shows killing the working wheatens but it was also the laws enforced on us that are as much to blame,one time we could park up along side a busy road and get all the gear for digging plus terrier and a strong dog or maybe 2 and walk down a field and nobody gave a bollox,nowadays the law would be on you in little or no time and even if you were not breaking the law and were genuinely at legal pest control[what we all do]they would still accuse you of doing something your not especially if you had a strong dog in tow.I know of several men who kept and worked strong dogs but none of these men keep them any more simply because its too much hassle when out in the country.

i agree with you fatman but down our way nobody would even know what breed a wheaten is they think they are cute cuddly bear but when you have a pure pitbull or bullcross or any greyhound cross they think you are up to no good and most of that is from gunclubs or farmers or coursing men thinking you are after hares when you are just doing a bit of legal foxing. Little do they know a first cross wheaten or bull isnt going to be a 3 out of 3 hare dog or maybe 1 out of 100 for that matter.

 

Its a good many years ago that myself a another couple of lads were goin down to do a shore for foxs.We parked up at the nearest point to where we were goin and then got out the terrier and a couple of lurchers.We were parked about 50yds down from a hospital for handicapped people and 1 of the people that worked in it was a member of the local coursing club.On seeing us heading down the field towards the shore he proceeded to phone the Garda and then he phoned another member of the coursing club to tell him about us.The member he phoned is actually a very good friend of mine and when the other lad described what we were driving my mate informed him that we were after foxs and not hares so he then cancelled the guards when he realised he was wrong about us but if he had not phoned my mate we would have had the guards on us.

[VOON 1,317]

 

 

 

 

Certificates don't lie jiggy. If Glens or Kerry's where nearly as good at one stage, why is there so much documentation on Wheatens and so little on Glens or Kerry blues? Even some EBT crosses were more popular and talked about more over the years for being proven game dogs.

Fat man I think I know the club in Ni you spoke about. In 1978 there was 54 strong dogs entered in one of there trials only 16 were Wheatens the rest was made up of Staff Bulls.

 

never said that they were equal in numbers to wheatens i did say that wheatens excelled but some even though a small amount of the kerry blues and glens worked and worked well in the early days if trials were brought back nowadays you would quickly see how far back the wheatens have gone working wise from been showed theres a few good wheatens knocking around still but they are small in numbers now too.

I agree with what you say about the shows killing the working wheatens but it was also the laws enforced on us that are as much to blame,one time we could park up along side a busy road and get all the gear for digging plus terrier and a strong dog or maybe 2 and walk down a field and nobody gave a bollox,nowadays the law would be on you in little or no time and even if you were not breaking the law and were genuinely at legal pest control[what we all do]they would still accuse you of doing something your not especially if you had a strong dog in tow.I know of several men who kept and worked strong dogs but none of these men keep them any more simply because its too much hassle when out in the country.

i agree with you fatman but down our way nobody would even know what breed a wheaten is they think they are cute cuddly bear but when you have a pure pitbull or bullcross or any greyhound cross they think you are up to no good and most of that is from gunclubs or farmers or coursing men thinking you are after hares when you are just doing a bit of legal foxing. Little do they know a first cross wheaten or bull isnt going to be a 3 out of 3 hare dog or maybe 1 out of 100 for that matter.

Its a good many years ago that myself a another couple of lads were goin down to do a shore for foxs.We parked up at the nearest point to where we were goin and then got out the terrier and a couple of lurchers.We were parked about 50yds down from a hospital for handicapped people and 1 of the people that worked in it was a member of the local coursing club.On seeing us heading down the field towards the shore he proceeded to phone the Garda and then he phoned another member of the coursing club to tell him about us.The member he phoned is actually a very good friend of mine and when the other lad described what we were driving my mate informed him that we were after foxs and not hares so he then cancelled the guards when he realised he was wrong about us but if he had not phoned my mate we would have had the guards on us.

That's the thing in Ireland, too many hangmen...always was....