Labour Leadership Election

[tatsblisters 9,472]

NO mention on immegration in that article and on the leafletts the chap from momentum gave me on saturday though he did say Corbyn and the labour party understanded working class peoples concerns over immegration.

[WILF 46,639]

I think there are real savings to be made now all the same mate BUT it's no good if you don't give the money back to people.......if someone had the bottle to stand up and say "right, I'm doing away with all the nonsense......CRE, gone, NHS for anyone working gone and here is your £60 a week back, council tax gone.....buy your own school books and sort your own rubbish out of the £1500 a year, parking charges gone.....get some life back in the towns, business rates gone.....use the money to invest in your firms, why have we got 23000 people in the foreign office when 20 used to do the job ?.......get them gone, police checkpoints with about 30 officers stood round doing f**k all except hand out fixed penalties.......gone......go and patrol the streets and Nick some real criminals, black history month......gone, diversity funding in all its forms.....gone......just let people live their life and be who they are.......

 

There's a few hundred billion quid right off the bat but it only works if you give people the money BACK !!

[Nik_B 3,790]

I think there are real savings to be made now all the same mate BUT it's no good if you don't give the money back to people.......if someone had the bottle to stand up and say "right, I'm doing away with all the nonsense......CRE, gone, NHS for anyone working gone and here is your £60 a week back, council tax gone.....buy your own school books and sort your own rubbish out of the £1500 a year, parking charges gone.....get some life back in the towns, business rates gone.....use the money to invest in your firms, why have we got 23000 people in the foreign office when 20 used to do the job ?.......get them gone, police checkpoints with about 30 officers stood round doing f**k all except hand out fixed penalties.......gone......go and patrol the streets and Nick some real criminals, black history month......gone, diversity funding in all its forms.....gone......just let people live their life and be who they are.......

 

There's a few hundred billion quid right off the bat but it only works if you give people the money BACK !!

Get rid of public sector pensions that's a massive cost to the rest of us who have to save ours up while simultaneously paying for other peope to have a better retirement.

[BGD 6,436]

NO mention on immegration in that article and on the leafletts the chap from momentum gave me on saturday though he did say Corbyn and the labour party understanded working class peoples concerns over immegration.

 

The effects on public services, housing and jobs are most folks biggest concerns over immigration, we agree on that point?

 

So when Corbyn is talking about what he'll do to improve those things he's addressing working class people's concerns over immigration, that's the whole point instead of just pointing at immigrants and blaming everything on them he's offering real solutions to folks concerns.

 

As we've discussed a few times in this thread if you want a party that will just blame all the problems on immigration vote UKIP, Corbyn is about offering solutions to those problems. At the end of the day whoever is in power you're going to get roughly the same amount of immigration what matters is whether the public services and infrastructure get the investment needed to deal with the extra people. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole that's a fact it's just under the last governments that benefit hasn't been felt by the communities that experience all of the negative effects of the increased burden on already underfunded public services and resources.

 

If foreigners just being here is what bothers you then none of the mainstream parties are for you really, you'd have to vote BNP or similiar. Even UKIP accept there would have to be some level of immigration.

[WILF 46,639]

Politician talk about "fair" all the time like its a massively complicated thing to get right......well, it's not.

Everyone works to the same rules and everyone pays the same.....then no one can be jealous or feel bad......simple !

 

Unfortunately this don't really work for politicians as it makes it very difficult to manipulate people.

[BGD 6,436]

I think there are real savings to be made now all the same mate BUT it's no good if you don't give the money back to people.......if someone had the bottle to stand up and say "right, I'm doing away with all the nonsense......CRE, gone, NHS for anyone working gone and here is your £60 a week back, council tax gone.....buy your own school books and sort your own rubbish out of the £1500 a year, parking charges gone.....get some life back in the towns, business rates gone.....use the money to invest in your firms, why have we got 23000 people in the foreign office when 20 used to do the job ?.......get them gone, police checkpoints with about 30 officers stood round doing f**k all except hand out fixed penalties.......gone......go and patrol the streets and Nick some real criminals, black history month......gone, diversity funding in all its forms.....gone......just let people live their life and be who they are.......

 

There's a few hundred billion quid right off the bat but it only works if you give people the money BACK !!

There's so much waste we could eliminate without even going that far pal. Just in that article Corbyn was talking about getting rid of the internal market in the NHS saving £3billion a year, mostly in managers wages!

Then you've the wasteful PFI contracts, overpaid bureaucrats that don't actually do anything but pull in six figures, MPs expenses, government offices in £100 million buildings in the centre of London instead of out in the sticks somewhere. The list is endless, I reckon me and you alone could sit down and save the country £10 billion a year without anyone even feeling any effect on their day to day lives. Instead when they decide we need to trim the fat what do they go after? Working Joes, single mums, disabled folk and vital public services

Edited August 8, 2016 by BGD

[BGD 6,436]

Politician talk about "fair" all the time like its a massively complicated thing to get right......well, it's not.

Everyone works to the same rules and everyone pays the same.....then no one can be jealous or feel bad......simple !

 

Unfortunately this don't really work for politicians as it makes it very difficult to manipulate people.

 

For that to really work we'd have to have some kind of leveling of the playing field first though otherwise everyone who's made out well in the current unfair system will have an unfair advantage in the new fair system.

 

You're not about to go all Pol Pot on us are you WILF?

[tatsblisters 9,472]

No problem with controlled immigration with the people that the country needs even the chap from momentum said that we have had too meny to soon especialy the unskilled immigration from poor eastern European countrys.

[BGD 6,436]

No problem with controlled immigration with the people that the country needs even the chap from momentum said that we have had too meny to soon especialy the unskilled immigration from poor eastern European countrys.

 

Think I've said similar in this very thread pal, Romania etc shouldn't have been included in the free movement of labour until their economies had caught up with the rest of the EU. Only one group of people benefited from the influx of unskilled migrants and it wasn't the folk living in the areas they were dumped in.

[BGD 6,436]

Just to bring the thread back to the Labour leadership election for a minute...

 

The High Court has ruled that the NEC were wrong to exclude the 130,000 new members from voting in the election

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37009871

Five new Labour Party members have won a High Court battle over their legal right to vote in the leadership contest between Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith.

 

Labour's NEC had ruled that party members who joined after 12 January could not vote in the contest.

 

The group that brought the legal challenge argued this amounted to a breach of contract, saying they had "paid their dues" for a right to vote.

 

The outcome of the leadership election is due on 24 September.

 

The court's decision could add as many as 126,592 people to the list of those eligible to vote in the contest, an expansion of about a third of the membership.

Edited August 8, 2016 by BGD

[Born Hunter 17,751]

There'll never be a significant libertarian movement in the UK. The British only know authority! Our answer to any problem is regulations and bans! So long as we are regulating the other fellas liberties, we're free right? LOL

 

I'd bet 95% of the UK electorate couldn't even tell you what libertarianism is and in fact I've had debates with educated colleagues who seem to think modern liberalism somehow represents freedom and yet typical libertarian values represent some sort of extreme right wing!

 

It'll never happen in the UK.

[BGD 6,436]

There'll never be a significant libertarian movement in the UK. The British only know authority! Our answer to any problem is regulations and bans! So long as we are regulating the other fellas liberties, we're free right? LOL

 

I'd bet 95% of the UK electorate couldn't even tell you what libertarianism is and in fact I've had debates with educated colleagues who seem to think modern liberalism somehow represents freedom and yet typical libertarian values represent some sort of extreme right wing!

 

It'll never happen in the UK.

 

This is why we need voting reform TBH, no doubt a party with a solid libertarian platform could pick up a few seats under some kind of PR and then they may get the opportunity to influence policy in a coalition government.

 

That will never happen in the UK either though

[Born Hunter 17,751]

 

There'll never be a significant libertarian movement in the UK. The British only know authority! Our answer to any problem is regulations and bans! So long as we are regulating the other fellas liberties, we're free right? LOL

 

I'd bet 95% of the UK electorate couldn't even tell you what libertarianism is and in fact I've had debates with educated colleagues who seem to think modern liberalism somehow represents freedom and yet typical libertarian values represent some sort of extreme right wing!

 

It'll never happen in the UK.

 

This is why we need voting reform TBH, no doubt a party with a solid libertarian platform could pick up a few seats under some kind of PR and then they may get the opportunity to influence policy in a coalition government.

 

That will never happen in the UK either though

 

 

Even if it did though, there just isn't the mentality for libertarianism in the UK. It's just not on the table in UK politics. Obviously I can see how your suggestion would more fairly represent UK politics though. Not sure if I'd go for single transferable vote though. But for the above, no fecking electoral system will help me other than totalitarian enforced freedom!

Edited August 8, 2016 by Born Hunter

[Born Hunter 17,751]

And on the topic of reform if we were to start from scratch I'd be inclined to fully separate the three branches of government in a presidential system and ditch the Lords in favour of a more democratic house or a more pure form of a house of wise-men.

 

That's the idealist in me. The traditional pragmatic conservative part of me feels like that'd be a step too far. LOL

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

 

 

There'll never be a significant libertarian movement in the UK. The British only know authority! Our answer to any problem is regulations and bans! So long as we are regulating the other fellas liberties, we're free right? LOL

 

I'd bet 95% of the UK electorate couldn't even tell you what libertarianism is and in fact I've had debates with educated colleagues who seem to think modern liberalism somehow represents freedom and yet typical libertarian values represent some sort of extreme right wing!

 

It'll never happen in the UK.

This is why we need voting reform TBH, no doubt a party with a solid libertarian platform could pick up a few seats under some kind of PR and then they may get the opportunity to influence policy in a coalition government.

 

That will never happen in the UK either though

Even if it did though, there just isn't the mentality for libertarianism in the UK. It's just not on the table in UK politics. Obviously I can see how your suggestion would more fairly represent UK politics though. Not sure if I'd go for single transferable vote though. But for the above, no fecking electoral system will help me other than totalitarian enforced freedom!

I can see you point pal, we're talking about the birthplace of the welfare state where the NHS is considered a sacred institution. Not exactly the most fertile breeding ground for libertarianism

 

I'm not sure I'd go for single transferable vote either TBH, this is one of the problems with voting reform, even among those that agree the current system needs to go no one can agree on what to replace it with.

 

 

Pretty much agree with your other post

Edited August 8, 2016 by BGD