Labour Leadership Election

[green lurchers 16,618]

To be fair though labour did give a lot of people a crack at employment who might never have gotten a chance but for them.

I'm pretty sure you'll find there are many young black lesbian outreach coordinators who are extremely grateful.

sums labours employment record up to a tee

[BGD 6,436]

"Big Dave", just for a while, let's go off at a bit of a tangent - (I'm sure it won't be long before developments bring us back !)......

 

The Tories are just as factional as Labour, but they seem united behind their new leader - maybe because when, the previous incumbent resigned, they had a "natural" successor ?

The Tories have always been so much better at keeping their infighting out of the public eye, much more disciplined. Also the fact they're in power but with a small majority helps keep some MPs in line, they don't want to be the ones to bring down the government. Make no mistake though folk are sharpening their knives behind closed doors, Brexit negotiations haven't even started yet...

 

Could Corbyn's unpopularity among his MPs stem from the fact that he is "anti establishment", and was, in fact, only nominated as a bit of a joke, to make the numbers up almost ? Now that their little joke has backfired, they want rid......?

 

The right of the party went along with nominating Corbyn because they honestly went into that leadership election expecting to crush the left forever, that was the whole point of the £3 votes and all the other changes to the party electoral system. Blair even hailed the £3 supporters as a brilliant idea when it was introduced

 

There's a hardcore of Blairite MPs that have set out to sabotage him from the start because they're so ideologically opposed to him they'd rather see the Labour party destroyed than return to it's left wing values and they've spent the last 9 months pressuring more moderate MPs and persuaded them that they'd get rid of Corbyn easily without any fuss and install a nice "electable" leader who would adopt some of Corbyn's policies, now it obviously hasn't worked out like that a lot of them have got cold feet and are ready to return to Corbyn, have you noticed how hardly any MPs have actually been publicly supporting Smith? I've heard of quite a few MPs already quietly approaching Corbyn's team about returning to the frontbenches after the leadership election....

 

A majority of MPs don't really feel too strongly one way or the other about Corbyn they were just persuaded it was "for the good of the party" there's been some reports of quite nasty bullying of MPs to get them on board with coup.

 

 

Also, given the public's almost universal loathing of Blair, why do a large number of MPs still (apparently) cling to the "Blairite" tag ?

 

Oh they don't really like being called Blairite they've even banned it's use at CLP meetings, if you call someone a Blairite at a meeting you can be barred from voting in the leadership election (I'm really not making that up )

 

It's a bit of a lazy label TBH, you can only really call Progress (right-wing pressure group within the party) Blairites and even they would be a bit cagey about declaring themselves so in public these days but they really do admire and almost worship the man and think his only mistake was Iraq and they even think that was blown out of proportion by the public. Folk are using Blairite in the context of the coup to mean the right of the party that has been in power and trying to the crush the left since the 80s so it's not really accurate but it's short and gets the point across nicely so it's stuck.

[Tiercel 6,986]

 

 

"Big Dave", just for a while, let's go off at a bit of a tangent - (I'm sure it won't be long before developments bring us back !)......

The Tories are just as factional as Labour, but they seem united behind their new leader - maybe because when, the previous incumbent resigned, they had a "natural" successor ?

The Tories have always been so much better at keeping their infighting out of the public eye, much more disciplined. Also the fact they're in power but with a small majority helps keep some MPs in line, they don't want to be the ones to bring down the government. Make no mistake though folk are sharpening their knives behind closed doors, Brexit negotiations haven't even started yet...

Could Corbyn's unpopularity among his MPs stem from the fact that he is "anti establishment", and was, in fact, only nominated as a bit of a joke, to make the numbers up almost ? Now that their little joke has backfired, they want rid......?

The right of the party went along with nominating Corbyn because they honestly went into that leadership election expecting to crush the left forever, that was the whole point of the £3 votes and all the other changes to the party electoral system. Blair even hailed the £3 supporters as a brilliant idea when it was introduced

There's a hardcore of Blairite MPs that have set out to sabotage him from the start because they're so ideologically opposed to him they'd rather see the Labour party destroyed than return to it's left wing values and they've spent the last 9 months pressuring more moderate MPs and persuaded them that they'd get rid of Corbyn easily without any fuss and install a nice "electable" leader who would adopt some of Corbyn's policies, now it obviously hasn't worked out like that a lot of them have got cold feet and are ready to return to Corbyn, have you noticed how hardly any MPs have actually been publicly supporting Smith? I've heard of quite a few MPs already quietly approaching Corbyn's team about returning to the frontbenches after the leadership election....

A majority of MPs don't really feel too strongly one way or the other about Corbyn they were just persuaded it was "for the good of the party" there's been some reports of quite nasty bullying of MPs to get them on board with coup.

Also, given the public's almost universal loathing of Blair, why do a large number of MPs still (apparently) cling to the "Blairite" tag ?

 

Oh they don't really like being called Blairite they've even banned it's use at CLP meetings, if you call someone a Blairite at a meeting you can be barred from voting in the leadership election (I'm really not making that up )

 

It's a bit of a lazy label TBH, you can only really call Progress (right-wing pressure group within the party) Blairites and even they would be a bit cagey about declaring themselves so in public these days but they really do admire and almost worship the man and think his only mistake was Iraq and they even think that was blown out of proportion by the public. Folk are using Blairite in the context of the coup to mean the right of the party that has been in power and trying to the crush the left since the 80s so it's not really accurate but it's short and gets the point across nicely so it's stuck.

 

50 shades of grey come to mind. Not one thing in Black or White.

 

TC

[BGD 6,436]

Another good piece on the coup and how it's failed

 

While much media coverage has focused on individuals who used to support Corbyn but no longer do, there appears to be far more movement in the opposite direction. Many constituency branches that previously supported Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper are now supporting Corbyn. Party activists report that some members have been made into reluctant Corbynites by the behaviour of Labour MPs. And the loathing that the parliamentary Labour Party and its traditional managerial elites have for the membership, which is only compounded by their perplexity when the feeling turns out to be mutual, has a lot to do with this.

 

But so has the paucity of their analysis. Unable to explain Labour's deep crisis, and evidently expecting everyone else to have the attention span of a stunned goldfish, they blame Corbyn for losing Labour's "traditional" voters. Even if Labour had not gradually improved its position until the coup began, it is astonishing to hear that Corbyn has lost "traditional" voters after New Labour shed five million such voters during their period in office, and after Ed Miliband's leadership lost Scotland. In fact, recovering the core vote (outside Scotland) is one thing that under Corbyn's leadership Labour has been doing comparatively well in by-elections and local elections.

While much media coverage has focused on individuals who used to support Corbyn but no longer do, there appears to be far more movement in the opposite direction. Many constituency branches that previously supported Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper are now supporting Corbyn. Party activists report that some members have been made into reluctant Corbynites by the behaviour of Labour MPs. And the loathing that the parliamentary Labour Party and its traditional managerial elites have for the membership, which is only compounded by their perplexity when the feeling turns out to be mutual, has a lot to do with this.

 

But so has the paucity of their analysis. Unable to explain Labour's deep crisis, and evidently expecting everyone else to have the attention span of a stunned goldfish, they blame Corbyn for losing Labour's "traditional" voters. Even if Labour had not gradually improved its position until the coup began, it is astonishing to hear that Corbyn has lost "traditional" voters after New Labour shed five million such voters during their period in office, and after Ed Miliband's leadership lost Scotland. In fact, recovering the core vote (outside Scotland) is one thing that under Corbyn's leadership Labour has been doing comparatively well in by-elections and local elections.

 

Lacking a plausible analysis of the party's problems, having launched a failed coup attempt, unable to restore their old moral authority, and now stripped of the methods of exclusion and purge, some on the Labour Right have been briefing that they are preparing for a split. The Saving Labour faction has openly vaunted this option. But it is unlikely that such a split has any future. Labour culture is saturated in tribal hatred for the splitters of 1931 and 1983. Its trade union base will not support any split, few members would, and probably only a minority of MPs are ready to defect. Moreover, the idea of a new centre party is counterintuitive in an era when politics is demonstrably polarising and the centre – as Nick Clegg can attest – is shrinking. In all likelihood, the anti-Corbyn wedge will have to content itself with returning to low-level sabotage, diminished in force and numbers after defeat and the return of many softer allies to the front benches. The current gossip is that one of their plans is to "break the whip's office", which most likely means a small number of MPs ignoring discipline and operating as a party-within-a-party.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/richard-seymour-the-labour-right-corbyn-nec

[Blackbriar 8,569]

On another tangent, I see Andy Burnham has studiously kept his head down during his Manchester mayoral candidacy....

I think he's spotted a nice new gravy train to jump onto, so he's not been rocking the boat, whilst actually deserting a sinking ship ! (How's that for mixed metaphors !)

[BGD 6,436]

On another tangent, I see Andy Burnham has studiously kept his head down during his Manchester mayoral candidacy....

I think he's spotted a nice new gravy train to jump onto, so he's not been rocking the boat, whilst actually deserting a sinking ship ! (How's that for mixed metaphors !)

They don't call him the weathervane for nothing he'll be keeping his head down until he knows for sure which way the wind is blowing

[Blackbriar 8,569]

 

On another tangent, I see Andy Burnham has studiously kept his head down during his Manchester mayoral candidacy....

I think he's spotted a nice new gravy train to jump onto, so he's not been rocking the boat, whilst actually deserting a sinking ship ! (How's that for mixed metaphors !)

They don't call him the weathervane for nothing he'll be keeping his head down until he knows for sure which way the wind is blowing

Very diplomatic.......I would have said he's always struck me as a slimy little prat !

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

On another tangent, I see Andy Burnham has studiously kept his head down during his Manchester mayoral candidacy....

I think he's spotted a nice new gravy train to jump onto, so he's not been rocking the boat, whilst actually deserting a sinking ship ! (How's that for mixed metaphors !)

They don't call him the weathervane for nothing he'll be keeping his head down until he knows for sure which way the wind is blowing

Very diplomatic.......I would have said he's always struck me as a slimy little prat !

I quite like him on a personal level TBH he's a good lad really just very cautious. He will always back the members decision though and has said from the start he doesn't agree with the plotters and thinks this is the wrong time to be going through a leadership election when they need to be focusing on opposing the Tories, something I'm sure we can all agree with.

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

 

"Big Dave", just for a while, let's go off at a bit of a tangent - (I'm sure it won't be long before developments bring us back !)......

 

The Tories are just as factional as Labour, but they seem united behind their new leader - maybe because when, the previous incumbent resigned, they had a "natural" successor ?

The Tories have always been so much better at keeping their infighting out of the public eye, much more disciplined. Also the fact they're in power but with a small majority helps keep some MPs in line, they don't want to be the ones to bring down the government. Make no mistake though folk are sharpening their knives behind closed doors, Brexit negotiations haven't even started yet...

Could Corbyn's unpopularity among his MPs stem from the fact that he is "anti establishment", and was, in fact, only nominated as a bit of a joke, to make the numbers up almost ? Now that their little joke has backfired, they want rid......?

The right of the party went along with nominating Corbyn because they honestly went into that leadership election expecting to crush the left forever, that was the whole point of the £3 votes and all the other changes to the party electoral system. Blair even hailed the £3 supporters as a brilliant idea when it was introduced

 

There's a hardcore of Blairite MPs that have set out to sabotage him from the start because they're so ideologically opposed to him they'd rather see the Labour party destroyed than return to it's left wing values and they've spent the last 9 months pressuring more moderate MPs and persuaded them that they'd get rid of Corbyn easily without any fuss and install a nice "electable" leader who would adopt some of Corbyn's policies, now it obviously hasn't worked out like that a lot of them have got cold feet and are ready to return to Corbyn, have you noticed how hardly any MPs have actually been publicly supporting Smith? I've heard of quite a few MPs already quietly approaching Corbyn's team about returning to the frontbenches after the leadership election....

 

A majority of MPs don't really feel too strongly one way or the other about Corbyn they were just persuaded it was "for the good of the party" there's been some reports of quite nasty bullying of MPs to get them on board with coup.

 

Also, given the public's almost universal loathing of Blair, why do a large number of MPs still (apparently) cling to the "Blairite" tag ?

Oh they don't really like being called Blairite they've even banned it's use at CLP meetings, if you call someone a Blairite at a meeting you can be barred from voting in the leadership election (I'm really not making that up )

 

It's a bit of a lazy label TBH, you can only really call Progress (right-wing pressure group within the party) Blairites and even they would be a bit cagey about declaring themselves so in public these days but they really do admire and almost worship the man and think his only mistake was Iraq and they even think that was blown out of proportion by the public. Folk are using Blairite in the context of the coup to mean the right of the party that has been in power and trying to the crush the left since the 80s so it's not really accurate but it's short and gets the point across nicely so it's stuck.

50 shades of grey come to mind. Not one thing in Black or White.

 

TC

That's life pal, things are usually in shades of grey

 

Not really sure what you complaint with the post is though, do you disagree with anything I said? I'm not sure what exactly you expected, why would anything be in "Black and White" (not even really sure what you meant by that, there's plenty of definite, unambiguous statements in the post) I was just giving some opinions...

[Nik_B 3,790]

Whatever your political beliefs it's a unique situation where those of us who hate labour and the political left want corbyn to win as we believe he will destroy labour....and the political left want him to win because they think he will save labour.

 

If your a white English person who loves the countryside and 'englishness' and you could vote labour then you must have a screw loose

Damn right...and anyone who hunts who votes for these freaks...well I don't even know what to say

[BGD 6,436]

 

Whatever your political beliefs it's a unique situation where those of us who hate labour and the political left want corbyn to win as we believe he will destroy labour....and the political left want him to win because they think he will save labour.

 

If your a white English person who loves the countryside and 'englishness' and you could vote labour then you must have a screw loose

Damn right...and anyone who hunts who votes for these freaks...well I don't even know what to say

Same could be said for anyone that votes for any of the major parties including UKIP, none of them have abolishing the Hunting Act as a policy...

[Nik_B 3,790]

 

 

Whatever your political beliefs it's a unique situation where those of us who hate labour and the political left want corbyn to win as we believe he will destroy labour....and the political left want him to win because they think he will save labour.

 

If your a white English person who loves the countryside and 'englishness' and you could vote labour then you must have a screw loose

Damn right...and anyone who hunts who votes for these freaks...well I don't even know what to say

Same could be said for anyone that votes for any of the major parties including UKIP, none of them have abolishing the Hunting Act as a policy...

Farage shoots and fishes and that was enough for me at the last election. Now we got out of the EU British politics means nothing to me...everything hinges on the US elections. I'm not even sure I'll bother voting again, UKIP has been turned red, Labour are turning commie, the conservatives are blairites...we have no sensible choices anymore.

[Francie 6,368]

Labour deputy said tonight, the party has influxed in hard lefters, said there to focused on the lefty agenda instead of elections

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

 

Whatever your political beliefs it's a unique situation where those of us who hate labour and the political left want corbyn to win as we believe he will destroy labour....and the political left want him to win because they think he will save labour.

 

If your a white English person who loves the countryside and 'englishness' and you could vote labour then you must have a screw loose

Damn right...and anyone who hunts who votes for these freaks...well I don't even know what to say

Same could be said for anyone that votes for any of the major parties including UKIP, none of them have abolishing the Hunting Act as a policy...

Farage shoots and fishes and that was enough for me at the last election. Now we got out of the EU British politics means nothing to me...everything hinges on the US elections. I'm not even sure I'll bother voting again, UKIP has been turned red, Labour are turning commie, the conservatives are blairites...we have no sensible choices anymore.

Their policy of having local referenda instead of an outright repeal was still a shit wishy-washy position to take IMO however Farage feels about hunting himself. A cynical ploy to grab pro-hunting voters without committing to any real change just like the free vote Cameron promised then backed out of.

 

 

UKIP shifting to more left wing economic policies had alienated a fair chunk of their voters TBH, they were the only real right wing voice in British politics, a shame you don't feel like there's any party that represents you now.

 

I don't like to see any party abandoning their principles to chase power really, they should be persuading folk to vote for their policies not changing them constantly to try and claw a few votes away from their rivals.

[BGD 6,436]

Labour deputy said tonight, the party has influxed in hard lefters, said there to focused on the lefty agenda instead of elections

I'd love to know where Watson thinks these hundreds of thousands of hard leftists have come from, they've been awfully quiet all these years!