Labour Are Falling Apart

[shepp 2,285]

 

You have to give it to Corbyn he's a stubborn old bugger

You probably know more about this than me, but heres how I see it...

 

He WAS democratically elected by grass roots members of his Party, that is beyond question. I think that what IS being questioned is the nature of that membership. There was large scale entrism by groups, including SWP, in line with Militant infiltration in the 80s. They grouped together, paid their 3 quid, and got their man elected. Now, they seem hell-bent on remaking the whole Party in his image, even if he will never be PM while his ar5e points south !

 

The likes of Dave Nellist and Derek Hatton tried it in the 80s and all they achieved was to make Labour unelectable, a position they didn't recover from until Blair remodelled the Party in HIS image.

 

My money is still on a permanent split, forming a new party.

 

 

Discuss.

I believe quite a few people like me paid the £3 to help throw a spanner in the works.

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

You have to give it to Corbyn he's a stubborn old bugger

You probably know more about this than me, but heres how I see it...

 

He WAS democratically elected by grass roots members of his Party, that is beyond question. I think that what IS being questioned is the nature of that membership. There was large scale entrism by groups, including SWP, in line with Militant infiltration in the 80s. They grouped together, paid their 3 quid, and got their man elected. Now, they seem hell-bent on remaking the whole Party in his image, even if he will never be PM while his ar5e points south !

 

The likes of Dave Nellist and Derek Hatton tried it in the 80s and all they achieved was to make Labour unelectable, a position they didn't recover from until Blair remodelled the Party in HIS image.

 

My money is still on a permanent split, forming a new party.

 

 

Discuss.

I believe quite a few people like me paid the £3 to help throw a spanner in the works.

 

 

He would have won without the £3 supporters anyway so it didn't make much difference in the end. Your support is still appreciated though

 

I think the appeal with Corbyn is the fact that he's so far removed from the usual political class. The way he's standing up to the pressure from them and all sections of the media is to his credit. I certainly find it refreshing to have a major political figure stick two fingers up at the rest of them, even if I don't agree with all he says.

 

Think that's hit the nail on the head basically pal, he's an anti-establishment politician at a time when that's what appeals to the voters. If the Blairites get their way and install another empty suit as leader they'll be the ones killing any chance of the party winning anything.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

With another two shadow cabinet ministers gone, the replacements for the initial wave of resignations no less, at what point does it become undemocratic for the official opposition to continue as it is?

 

I accept that if the people support Corbyn then surely he must remain but equally if he can't pull together an effective opposition then suddenly the Parliamentary system fails in spite of the direct democratic support for it's leader, no?

 

There's direct democracy and then there is Parliamentary democracy and here we have an example of the two conflicting.....

Edited June 29, 2016 by Born Hunter

[BGD 6,436]

With another two shadow cabinet ministers gone, the replacements for the initial wave of resignations no less, at what point does it become undemocratic for the official opposition to continue as it is?

 

I accept that if the people support Corbyn then surely he must remain but equally if he can't pull together an effective opposition then suddenly the Parliamentary system fails in spite of the direct democratic support for it's leader, no?

 

There's direct democracy and then there is Parliamentary democracy and here we have an example of the two conflicting.....

 

That's where deselection comes in These MPs that have tried to instigate a coup against the leader can expect to be deselected by their CLP at the next election and then their constituents can decide if they want them to carry on as an independant or elect the new Labour nominee.

[Blackbriar 8,569]

 

With another two shadow cabinet ministers gone, the replacements for the initial wave of resignations no less, at what point does it become undemocratic for the official opposition to continue as it is?

 

I accept that if the people support Corbyn then surely he must remain but equally if he can't pull together an effective opposition then suddenly the Parliamentary system fails in spite of the direct democratic support for it's leader, no?

 

There's direct democracy and then there is Parliamentary democracy and here we have an example of the two conflicting.....

 

That's where deselection comes in These MPs that have tried to instigate a coup against the leader can expect to be deselected by their CLP at the next election and then their constituents can decide if they want them to carry on as an independant or elect the new Labour nominee.

 

That's probably JC's plan ? Stand firm amd rely on grass roots support. Then, when and if he's re-elected, replace the PLP with a little army of Corbynistas ? Vive la revolution !

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

With another two shadow cabinet ministers gone, the replacements for the initial wave of resignations no less, at what point does it become undemocratic for the official opposition to continue as it is?

 

I accept that if the people support Corbyn then surely he must remain but equally if he can't pull together an effective opposition then suddenly the Parliamentary system fails in spite of the direct democratic support for it's leader, no?

 

There's direct democracy and then there is Parliamentary democracy and here we have an example of the two conflicting.....

That's where deselection comes in These MPs that have tried to instigate a coup against the leader can expect to be deselected by their CLP at the next election and then their constituents can decide if they want them to carry on as an independant or elect the new Labour nominee.

 

That's probably JC's plan ? Stand firm amd rely on grass roots support. Then, when and if he's re-elected, replace the PLP with a little army of Corbynistas ? Vive la revolution !

 

 

Well his original plan was to compromise with the Blairites and bring the party forward together but they kind of fecked that one up didn't they at the end of the day it's up to constituencies though, if a particular MP has been really good for an area they may well get not be deselected even if they've been anti-Corbyn and of course I'm sure there's some constituencies that are anti-Corbyn themselves and so wouldn't be deselecting anyone for taking part in the coup attempt. This is all assuming the reselection rules aren't changed at conference...

 

Basically it's going to be fecking messy

[Born Hunter 17,751]

 

With another two shadow cabinet ministers gone, the replacements for the initial wave of resignations no less, at what point does it become undemocratic for the official opposition to continue as it is?

 

I accept that if the people support Corbyn then surely he must remain but equally if he can't pull together an effective opposition then suddenly the Parliamentary system fails in spite of the direct democratic support for it's leader, no?

 

There's direct democracy and then there is Parliamentary democracy and here we have an example of the two conflicting.....

 

That's where deselection comes in These MPs that have tried to instigate a coup against the leader can expect to be deselected by their CLP at the next election and then their constituents can decide if they want them to carry on as an independant or elect the new Labour nominee.

 

 

Although I wasn't aware of the technicalities of it all that is kind of the conclusion I had come to, you can't move forward effectively when the leader/members have one political ideology and the majority of your MPs have a separate conflicting one. For them to be effective in Parliament they have to all be pointing the same way, that's in the best interests of a representative democracy.

 

It certainly makes me wonder if it supports the Labour party splitting as some are touting. The Socialists under Corbyn merging with the likes of the Greens to form a firmly Left Labour party and leave the New Labour lot to form a centrist Social Democratic Labour party.

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

With another two shadow cabinet ministers gone, the replacements for the initial wave of resignations no less, at what point does it become undemocratic for the official opposition to continue as it is?

 

I accept that if the people support Corbyn then surely he must remain but equally if he can't pull together an effective opposition then suddenly the Parliamentary system fails in spite of the direct democratic support for it's leader, no?

 

There's direct democracy and then there is Parliamentary democracy and here we have an example of the two conflicting.....

 

That's where deselection comes in These MPs that have tried to instigate a coup against the leader can expect to be deselected by their CLP at the next election and then their constituents can decide if they want them to carry on as an independant or elect the new Labour nominee.

 

 

Although I wasn't aware of the technicalities of it all that is kind of the conclusion I had come to, you can't move forward effectively when the leader/members have one political ideology and the majority of your MPs have a separate conflicting one. For them to be effective in Parliament they have to all be pointing the same way, that's in the best interests of a representative democracy.

 

It certainly makes me wonder if it supports the Labour party splitting as some are touting. The Socialists under Corbyn merging with the likes of the Greens to form a firmly Left Labour party and leave the New Labour lot to form a centrist Social Democratic Labour party.

 

 

There's definitely folk already looking into splitting behind the scenes. Honestly it would be a shame to see the party split but if the Blairites really just cannot find common ground and work with Corbyn I don't see another option apart from a bloody "civil war" of deselection campaigns.

[green lurchers 16,590]

one of labours finest clowns

[Francie 6,368]

Been watcing farage for years giving it to the man, lol farage for pm

[Francie 6,368]

Hes the only one id trust lol

[kanny 20,480]

I like old farage he's a much needed element in UK politics. .BUT lol. ..I have to say I wasn't over impressed with him on the build up to the refurendum and that should have been one of his most shining moments. I felt he let the side down with facebook type politics. I was however very impressed with ukip mp Douglas carswell who was saying all the right things imo ..Of coarse we have everything to thank Nigel for if it wasn't for him i doubt we would have even had the refurendum. If he could just polish of the rough edges he could go from being good to one of the great politicians of modern times. ...just my opinion.

[green lurchers 16,590]

" you sit with our countrys flag you do not represent our countrys interest" well tony the war criminal you got very wrong lol

[BGD 6,436]

When the Chilcot report comes out Tony Blair and Jack Straw will be denounced as war criminals in the HoC by the leader of their own party

[green lurchers 16,590]

When the Chilcot report comes out Tony Blair and Jack Straw will be denounced as war criminals in the HoC by the leader of their own party

they can wrap it how they want, we know what he is,, along with being a traitor as is Gordon brown

Edited June 29, 2016 by green lurchers