hunting lines

[Guest thunderbelly]

There seems to be a lot of first time crosses owned by members of this sight. Has anyone started their own line? It doesn't make sense to me to keep starting over when you can breed the best hunting dogs available now and improve your chances of getting a good hunting dog. I realize you have specific needs of your dogs but breed with those needs in mind and you'll get the ultimate hunting line.

[Kane 2]

If the 1st time cross proves to be superior to line bred stuff(hybrid vigour etc) and is ideal for the work your doing I would stick with the 1st time cross.A lot of people on the site may have 1st time crosses there is a reason for that.

[swanseajack 228]

There seems to be a lot of first time crosses owned by members of this sight.  Has anyone started their own line?  It doesn't make sense to me to keep starting over when you can breed the best hunting dogs available now and improve your chances of getting a good hunting dog.  I realize you have specific needs of your dogs but breed with those needs in mind and you'll get the ultimate hunting line.

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First cross dogs normally produce what is generally called Hybrid Vigour, whereby the best attributes of both parents show up in the offspring. eg crossing a bull to a greyhound you would hope to get a pup that has the speed and attributes of a greyhound with tenacity and courage of the bull. Crossing a Collie to a greyhound you have the herding, brains etc of collie with speed of greyhound and so forth.

 

It can work that you'd have the speed of the bull with the brains of a greyhound , or as someone put it years back... and i always remember this, about two greyhounds one was Scurlogue Champ the other was a top sprinter (cant remember name).. well anyway Scurlogue champ was a long distance dog that dropped out for a circuit and finished like a train winning a lot of races, the sprinter always pinged the lids led by a half mile and just hung on to win races...

 

In theory by breeding these two dogs you would hopefully get an unbeatable dog that pinged the lids and stayed on like a train......... OR you would get a dog that dropped out for a circuit then faded...

 

by breeding from 1/2 cross to 1/2 cross you enter the world of Genetics, dominant and recessive genes etc... and that's a whole lot of differing scenario's .... much has been written on this and me being a layman wouldn't like to start trying to explain....

 

Selective breeding, worker to worker, type for type and clever culling would produce a line that on a %age basis should be true to type and work... problem with this is it's hard work and not 100% guaranteed and I take my hat off to the people who do it, have done it and continue to do it...

[Guest thunderbelly]

swansea no nead to explain genetics, I'm Canadian not french damit :11:

I understand the idea of hybrid vigour but you must realize all purebreds weren't always purebreds. As far as health problems look at the west siberian lika a primitive hardy hunting breed.

sure you run risks starting a line of your own but I think you reduce the risks with each generation.

Yes ruthless culling would be needed and it would take a long time but, picture the day your dog bred by you nails the perfect hunt.

[swanseajack 228]

swansea no nead to explain genetics, I'm Canadian not french damit :11:

I understand the idea of hybrid vigour but you must realize all purebreds weren't always purebreds.  As far as health problems look at the west siberian lika a primitive hardy hunting breed. 

sure you run risks starting a line of your own but I think you reduce the risks with each generation.

Yes ruthless culling would be needed and it would take a long time but, picture the day your dog bred by you nails the perfect hunt.

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Genetics I must be French

 

I only answered the question as a generalisation of why anyone breeds 1/2 crosses. The answer being it's easier and suits a purpose..

[Guest Doug]

Yes ruthless culling would be needed and it would take a long time but, picture the day your dog bred by you nails the perfect hunt. 

 

 

That's the thing, mate. If you breed to found a line, you have pups to home and dogs that might not suit. They don't ask to get born and it isn't right to breed them and put them down because they don't meet an imagined standard.

 

Every dog nails the perfect hunt sometime. That's the great thing about hunting. Sometimes it all goes belly-up and sometimes it's just amazing.

 

Thing is just to enjoy what comes your way and not to stress out over stuff that isn't important or attainable.

 

Me, I've bred my own for a long time, and I enjoy each one, none of them perfect and me neither.

[Garypco 3]

Yes ruthless culling would be needed and it would take a long time but, picture the day your dog bred by you nails the perfect hunt. 

 

 

That's the thing, mate. If you breed to found a line, you have pups to home and dogs that might not suit. They don't ask to get born and it isn't right to breed them and put them down because they don't meet an imagined standard.

 

Every dog nails the perfect hunt sometime. That's the great thing about hunting. Sometimes it all goes belly-up and sometimes it's just amazing.

 

Thing is just to enjoy what comes your way and not to stress out over stuff that isn't important or attainable.

 

Me, I've bred my own for a long time, and I enjoy each one, none of them perfect and me neither.

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Iagree 100% doug who needs to breed a line thats gonna need extensive culling we should be happy with a dog thats honest and has heart,hunting is about unpredictability as much as anything as long as it suits the man using it and is as honest as can be we should be happy with the dogs we got!!!

[Guest thunderbelly]

wow out voted hu, ok then do you guys breed your hunting dogs with other succesful hunting dogs, if guy "A" has an excelent lurcher and guy "B" also has an excelent lurcher, and I'm looking to expand my kennel would you suggest an AB cross or that I breed the same parents that made either A or B?

[Guest Doug]

Good question, mate.

 

What I'd do might not be what you'd do, but I look at what I hunt, where I hunt it, and where I'd like to make an improvement.

 

Then I look for a dog that can do my job and can add something to what I already have without taking away anything I want.

 

Clear as mud?

[Garypco 3]

wow out voted hu, ok then do you guys breed your hunting dogs with other succesful hunting dogs,  if guy "A" has an excelent lurcher and guy "B" also has an excelent lurcher, and I'm looking to expand my kennel would you suggest an AB cross or that I breed the same parents that made either A or B?

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CRACKER MATE,MOST PEOPLE WOULD BREED TO A GOOD DOG IT MAKES SENSE,BUT IM A FIRM BELIEVER,IF YOU'VE GOT A WORLD BEATER DONT GO LOOKING FOR A DOG IF YOU CAN GO BACK TOO WHAT MADE THAT DOG IN THE FIRST PLACE,OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL CAN,I HAD A SPANIEL ONCE DIED EARLYER THIS YEAR THE BEST WORKIN SPANIEL I EVER HAD HE SERVED COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF BITCHES,NOTHING CAME ANY GOOD,I MEAN COMPLETE FAILURES,IF ID OF KNOWN THIS THEN I WOULD OF BRED MORE PUPS FROM HIS MOTHER AND FATHER,NOW I'VE LOST THE LINE APART FROM A COUPLE THAT ARE OK.....REPEAT MATINGS IT HAS TOO BE THE ANSWER AS LONG AS U CAN BREED TRUE TO TYPE!!!

[Guest Doug]

So far as lurchers are concerned, often by the time you realise the dog is something special, one or both of the parents isn't capable of breeding any more

[Guest coney]

So far as lurchers are concerned, often by the time you realise the dog is something special, one or both of the parents isn't capable of breeding any more

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A very interesting subject and I have enjoyed reading these posts very much.

Over the years I have seen good half crosses and god lurcher to lurcher bred dogs. The best lurchers I have seen have been lurcher to lurcher matings, I think they make far better all-rounders than halfe crosses but I do know quite a lot of people who are very happy with their halfe breds and at the end of the day thats what matters; if one is happy with his, her lurcher then let others decide what they want. My personal choice are lurchers with a fair amount of collie blood, I can trace my two year old bitch Nells breeding back more than thirty years, and what have done is put good dog to good bitch and I'm happy with the result so far. My other lurcher is a bitch pup 5\8 greyhound 3\8 fell collie bred by Typp Ratcher, I guess I will have to wait and see what I can make of her!

Regards coney

[Guest thunderbelly]

Sounds like coney is doing exactly what I was getting at in my first post. But what value does the collie add? I notice there's a lot of collie used in lurchers.

[Guest coney]

Sounds like coney is doing exactly what I was getting at in my first post.  But what value does the collie add?  I notice there's a lot of collie used in lurchers.

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Hello thunderbelly, Collie adds brains when used for Lurcher breeding, infact Collie bred Lurchers were once considered the traditional types. I do a lot of ferreting and hunting up type of rabbiting and the Collie cross suits me fine.

Regards coney