Robert Lemm The Mill Maker

[Onlyworkmatters 1,584]

Max

every time you post t becomes clearer you havent got a f***ing clue what you're on about

[gnasher16 30,531]

  On 06/05/2016 at 07:57, maxhardcore said:

Tested for drugs Tallywakker.

 

So Gnash can any man really take any credit for the condition of a dog on Roids ?

And can any dogs record be worth the paper it's wrote on if on the gear for the keep period and or during its Competeing period or periods ?

 

Do em clean no matter what your into and you know exactly what youv got.

Use drugs and your not just kidding everyone else but most of all yourself .

Of course he can.....a dog cant put in years and years of research himself can he ?......Max competition is about winning,when people are backing their understanding of competition with their hard earned money they will do whatever it takes to win.

 

I genuinely dont mean to be impolite but sometimes if a subject interests you....you need to hold your mouth down and maybe do a bit of research first as like the lads have said people can show just how little they know by talking about stuff from guesswork.....your line about dogmen being ignorant and daft could have come straight off a comedy sketch

[gnasher16 30,531]

  On 05/05/2016 at 23:32, Greengrass said:

I remember when Azium first came on the scene, some dog men thought it was the b all and end all of everything , some in fact thought they could lessen the amount of hours put into a dog as Azium would make up the difference. It s all about what's good for the individual dog....I dare say you give two litter mates the same dosage and one might go forwards and one backwards....seen it with my own eyes that performance enhancing drugs don't always work..BUT as Gnasher says ..on some they will...you pays your money and takes your chances.

Azium/Dex was the basis of a dog matchers tool kit 20 years ago whereas today it would be like pulling up on a drag strip with a mk 4 cortina .....i remember a greyhound man asking me about it years ago i said why do you need to dry out a greyhound he wont be suffering any blood loss running round a track so he started using vit k .....some people are just too set in their ways to change you have to keep moving with sports science you cant stand still or you get left behind.....the biggest tool conditioners have today which they never really had before is Lab use and what a blood count can tell you....conditioners today understand the importance of how the body will pull away from water with a high red count so they can make the tiny little adjustments people couldnt make years ago....they can take the count high or low and concentrate the blood sending more red cells through to get cooled down in the lungs... everything can be done with pinpoint accuracy today whereas years ago much of it was just guesswork when you see the top dog matchers of today they school their dogs out like a formula 1 pit crew all with their own jobs to do wrapping the dog up in foil within seconds the dogs today really are treated like royalty and rightly so.

Edited May 6, 2016 by gnasher16

[WILF 47,956]

Well, you learn something new every day.....I never realised that a dog would only have 3 or 4 matches in its career.

I suppose it makes sense and it also shows the difference between that type of dog and its job and all other working dogs.

 

Brilliant reading lads, well done.

[gnasher16 30,531]

  On 06/05/2016 at 12:14, maxhardcore said:

Greyhounds are tested regularly if running under

Gbgb rules not just at the track but your kennels can be dropped in on at any time and any dog they like can be tested.

 

For the best part greyhound racing is clean.

Yes......and its also legal......legalise dog matching then you can start talking about making it clean.

 

  On 06/05/2016 at 12:32, WILF said:

Well, you learn something new every day.....I never realised that a dog would only have 3 or 4 matches in its career.

I suppose it makes sense and it also shows the difference between that type of dog and its job and all other working dogs.

 

Brilliant reading lads, well done.

 

Every contact a dog has will have a big effect on its immune system.....even a 5 minute roll if you was able to peel the skin away you would find deep bruising into the centre of the muscles over the entire body a fully peaked bulldog is a surprisingly delicate little athlete they can only hold peak condition for a very short time finding a dogs peak truly is an art much like a fighter making weight......some of these lads new to bulldogs roll them out far too often then by the time they are ready to peak them they are never able to find their true peak as the dog is already deteriorating you shouldnt have to roll the life out of a dog to see what you need to see,dont leave your best fight in the gym and all that........but a match dog that has had 3 or 4 hard shows will often be physically shot to pieces all dogs lose weight after a fight but its when they start struggling to put it back on you start to notice their immune system is just not fully recovering....time to call it a day.

[old school 567]

  On 06/05/2016 at 15:21, gnasher16 said:

 

  On 06/05/2016 at 12:14, maxhardcore said:

Greyhounds are tested regularly if running under

Gbgb rules not just at the track but your kennels can be dropped in on at any time and any dog they like can be tested.

For the best part greyhound racing is clean.

 

Yes......and its also legal......legalise dog matching then you can start talking about making it clean.

 

  On 06/05/2016 at 12:32, WILF said:

Well, you learn something new every day.....I never realised that a dog would only have 3 or 4 matches in its career.

I suppose it makes sense and it also shows the difference between that type of dog and its job and all other working dogs.

Brilliant reading lads, well done.

 

Every contact a dog has will have a big effect on its immune system.....even a 5 minute roll if you was able to peel the skin away you would find deep bruising into the centre of the muscles over the entire body a fully peaked bulldog is a surprisingly delicate little athlete they can only hold peak condition for a very short time finding a dogs peak truly is an art much like a fighter making weight......some of these lads new to bulldogs roll them out far too often then by the time they are ready to peak them they are never able to find their true peak as the dog is already deteriorating you shouldnt have to roll the life out of a dog to see what you need to see,dont leave your best fight in the gym and all that........but a match dog that has had 3 or 4 hard shows will often be physically shot to pieces all dogs lose weight after a fight but its when they start struggling to put it back on you start to notice their immune system is just not fully recovering....time to call it a day.

 

 

 

 

Ah now I see, I wondered why they were making it to 3 or 4 matches and then being retired and put to stud etc... So not only are the modern dogs better are the matches more intense? I was reading an article online that I can't find now but there was a dog in the 70's had 19 wins and I was thinking he's either a legend of a dog or his opponents were weak as piss.

[gnasher16 30,531]

  On 06/05/2016 at 15:26, maxhardcore said:

Gnash what has been legal or illegal got to do with it being clean.?

Apart from those in the game not trusting one another.

 

Say both dogs were tested a week before and the day of the match

If any were found to be on anything performance enhancing you for fit the purse ?

Stone the crows do you ever leave off.....its a crime Max,its illegal.........what do you want an international governing body for burglars to observe fair play in house breaking as well ?........go and pitch it to Wada see how they feel about it.

 

Sport is supposed to be about fair play and competetive spirit.....its about the positive impact it makes on society and the active healthy lifestyle it promotes within our communities................i dont see matching dogs really fitting into that little ideal do you ?

 

Plenty of natural dogs beat dogs on gear its a very individual thing not suited to all dogs or all dogmen theres no one size fits all as you would understand if you knew anything about conditioning the body..........stop being so silly in your eagerness to debate Max do what other people do and learn if its a subject that interests you,theres plenty about it in books or on the internet go and do some research you dont need to debate with me.......then once you can grasp the basics come back and debate it if you still feel the need.

Edited May 7, 2016 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,531]

  On 06/05/2016 at 16:43, old school said:

 

Ah now I see, I wondered why they were making it to 3 or 4 matches and then being retired and put to stud etc... So not only are the modern dogs better are the matches more intense? I was reading an article online that I can't find now but there was a dog in the 70's had 19 wins and I was thinking he's either a legend of a dog or his opponents were weak as piss.

 

These are different times mate Sugar Ray Robinson fought over 200 fights in his career todays top fighters do well to have 40.......the elite athletes today human or animal are much more highly tuned than years ago it doesnt make them better but the condition and peak they can be put in....yes thats definately better but the drawback is its far more stressful on the body over a career....... today all things being equal 10 fights for a man is probably the equivalent to 1 for a dog.

Edited May 7, 2016 by gnasher16

[MickC 1,825]

LOADS of boxers/mma are full of juice,some get caught others don't,it seems to be well worth the risk there is that many doing it.

 

edit to say most competitive sports are rife with it cycling,rugby for example.

Edited May 7, 2016 by MickC

[YOKEL 2,297]

I think if truth be told ALOT of elite athletes have certain potions to help them train harder and recover quicker, not just bulldogs and boxers...

Yokel

[stone rose 353]

great thread lads very interesting atb

[lee 99]

It's rife in almost all sports it's staying one step ahead of the testers that is the real science

[Onlyworkmatters 1,584]

Best athletes have the best chemists

[gnasher16 30,531]

 

 

  On 07/05/2016 at 08:22, maxhardcore said:

Well I'd say I sm looking to learn by asking these questions
All iv said is what has the game been illegal have to do with having to juice your dogs ?
It can only be that other dog men don't trust their opponents not to be on gear so they juice their animals up also?
Performance enhancing drugs are exactly what they state
So at a guess I'd say dogs on them for the best part have a advantage on dogs not on them ?

Youv said it's only during the keep ?
Then they go into their work clean if you want to call it that.

I wonder if any boxers have done or do the same ?

There's a touch paper to light lol

Again,if somethings illegal there cant be a governing body....if theres no governing body who does the testing.....owners ?

 

You could use the words " performance enhancing " in any sport.........lightweight football boots enhance performance .....Formula 1 uses scientists to enhance performance......people only freak out when the word " drug " is involved......i can understand that rules are rules but if in a sport that involves 2 competitors who are both breaking the rules is there any cheating going on ?......sportsmen will do anything to gain an advantage we know that its the nature of competition so the minimal advantage a dog might get on juice is down to the better conditioner i dont see a problem in that plenty of inferior dogs have come out victorious through superior conditioning thats why its so important.

 

All i meant by go and learn is go and learn the very basics of dog matching before trying to learn about intricate details of conditioning.......then it will all make more sense.

Edited May 9, 2016 by gnasher16