How Early

[Haiddheliwr 1,911]

I am with FD on this one. Landowners and farmers although allowing the hunt on their land would have major problems without other forms of pest control. Owing to the vast plantations in my part of the country there will always be a need for hounds and I am one that follows a hunt, but realise hunting with hounds alone is not a solution. Crosshair as I have said previously in this thread has a job of work to do, if he does not control the fox population to his guvnor's satisfaction and shoot days do not produce the birds then unfortunately he has to pay the ultimate price! When I hear of foxes in double figures being taken out on a regular basis with NV and image intensifiers it does hurt I cannot lie about that, but that is how it is we have to accept that. The Americans are close if not already pioneering a heat seeking rifle round for hunting, as long as you have locked on to the target even if moving the round will hit home. Everyone enjoy whatever form of hunting you do while you can ATB

[neil cooney 10,416]

I was over on Athol estates on Monday the 18th April micro chipping a few of the keepers dogs all the keepers are hard at it waiting out at night and checking dens this time of year one of the lads had had a litter 2 days before ....now these cubs must of been a very early litter ....up this way the hill lads do not check dens until the 15th of April for 2 reasons that is when the heather burning stops and by that time you can near guarantee that most vixens will of dropped by then ....im not a fan of pics of cubs but these cubs must be around the 2 month mark which would of made them born mid Feb which is very very early on the low ground never mind the hill ...also the dog was in with them I have not spoken to him since then but have sent him a message as im in Vietnam to see if they got the vixen

13046074_10208038740019704_542963841_n.jpg

Myself and Fatman were coming back from somewhere last Sunday and seen a dead cub on the road that I would think was nearly that size.

Just shows how early they will cub.

[Haiddheliwr 1,911]

Haven't seen a cub on the side of the road yet Neil must be getting streetwise lol

[neil cooney 10,416]

I am with FD on this one. Landowners and farmers although allowing the hunt on their land would have major problems without other forms of pest control. Owing to the vast plantations in my part of the country there will always be a need for hounds and I am one that follows a hunt, but realise hunting with hounds alone is not a solution. Crosshair as I have said previously in this thread has a job of work to do, if he does not control the fox population to his guvnor's satisfaction and shoot days do not produce the birds then unfortunately he has to pay the ultimate price! When I hear of foxes in double figures being taken out on a regular basis with NV and image intensifiers it does hurt I cannot lie about that, but that is how it is we have to accept that. The Americans are close if not already pioneering a heat seeking rifle round for hunting, as long as you have locked on to the target even if moving the round will hit home. Everyone enjoy whatever form of hunting you do while you can ATB

I really really do hope that shooting never goes down that route. I'm all for control, not extermination.

There's already enough gadget geeks taking up shooting foxes. The same lads wouldn't know a Red Squirrel from a Red Stag.

[Haiddheliwr 1,911]

I am afraid that is what we are up against Neil Sad eh!!!!!!

[neil cooney 10,416]

Haven't seen a cub on the side of the road yet Neil must be getting streetwise lol

LOL, is it just me or do all hunting folk slow down to have a look and then feel remorse when they see any wildlife killed on the road.

The only roadkill that doesn't bother me is a dead cat.

[Haiddheliwr 1,911]

Its in our make up Neil I think we all do that!!

[MIK 4,756]

 

I was over on Athol estates on Monday the 18th April micro chipping a few of the keepers dogs all the keepers are hard at it waiting out at night and checking dens this time of year one of the lads had had a litter 2 days before ....now these cubs must of been a very early litter ....up this way the hill lads do not check dens until the 15th of April for 2 reasons that is when the heather burning stops and by that time you can near guarantee that most vixens will of dropped by then ....im not a fan of pics of cubs but these cubs must be around the 2 month mark which would of made them born mid Feb which is very very early on the low ground never mind the hill ...also the dog was in with them I have not spoken to him since then but have sent him a message as im in Vietnam to see if they got the vixen

13046074_10208038740019704_542963841_n.jpg

Myself and Fatman were coming back from somewhere last Sunday and seen a dead cub on the road that I would think was nearly that size.

Just shows how early they will cub.

 

I have seen a few early cubs over the years like most of us but I have never heard let alone seen a litter that early on the hill

[king 11,972]

 

 

I was over on Athol estates on Monday the 18th April micro chipping a few of the keepers dogs all the keepers are hard at it waiting out at night and checking dens this time of year one of the lads had had a litter 2 days before ....now these cubs must of been a very early litter ....up this way the hill lads do not check dens until the 15th of April for 2 reasons that is when the heather burning stops and by that time you can near guarantee that most vixens will of dropped by then ....im not a fan of pics of cubs but these cubs must be around the 2 month mark which would of made them born mid Feb which is very very early on the low ground never mind the hill ...also the dog was in with them I have not spoken to him since then but have sent him a message as im in Vietnam to see if they got the vixen

13046074_10208038740019704_542963841_n.jpg

 

Myself and Fatman were coming back from somewhere last Sunday and seen a dead cub on the road that I would think was nearly that size.

Just shows how early they will cub.

I have seen a few early cubs over the years like most of us but I have never heard let alone seen a litter that early on the hill

That's the thing I think we would struggle to understand totally.

Is the way wildlife can quickly adapt to different scenarios.

As in the weather etc.and adjust there breeding times accordingly.

Years ago we had proper winters.

Last winter the car screen was iced over about 4 times max.

Very very mild.

The warmest on record.

[Born Hunter 17,763]

 

I've got to say lads, this is a truly fascinating and insightful thread! It really demonstrates how in touch and knowledgeable countrymen are with their quarry. I was particularly intrigued by this theory that a dominant vixen will keep others out of heat and allow them to kick about until next spring, which fits perfectly with my experience.

 

I find that where keepers are understanding of the hunts, the hunts are perfectly understanding of the keepers! This hatred between hunting folk and shooting folk only exists when one or both are ignorant and selfish towards the other.

 

Cracking thread for the most part.

 

I wont even reply to that other idiot.

I've done a lot of hunt terrier work Born Hunter and any Huntsman will tell you that one good fox is better than several bad ones. Very very rare for a pack to blank in a days hunting.

I popped into a neighbour today to say hello (and drink a few glasses of Brandy) and when I got home there a while ago I checked my phone and had a miss-call.

On my voicemail was a message from an old woman out the road, out of breath, shouting down the phone to me that the fox was after been in her yard, killed a few hens and was now crossing the garden with a hen in it's mouth. That was around 4 pm.

What's the solution ?

If I was to take that other idiots advice I should go out tomorrow morning and educate that woman and explain to her that I'll wait 'til the cubs are adults and the weather is cold and then I'll sort her problem for her.

Maybe I should compensate her for her loss, just like the Masters did a hundred years ago ?

Or maybe I should do what those of us who know how the countryside works and just get on with the job.

You don't need to tell me mate. I'm certainly more a shooting man than a Hunting man so I fully understand the necessity for control. I had my first pilgrimage of this year south on the bucks on Saturday to a mates estate. In 24 hrs I grassed 6 bucks and did what I could to help my mate out on the foxes. Part of that trip was sport, part of it was being a good guest. And yet we still managed to drop by the local hunt kennels for the craic and a bit of business. Good lads understand the countryside, shooting men and hunting men, proper ones get that.

 

About 2 months back I was fortunate enough to spend a few days with one of the Scottish hill packs, invited by a hunting mate and staying with the huntsman while up there. I'll keep names etc out of this. Anyway, proper hunting men that live for it and yet they are still totally understanding of shooting men and so long as you don't act a twat absolute gents! All this venom I see between hunting and shooting is bullshit. I'm just glad I mix in the circles I do.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Born Hunter

[Crosshair 77]

The thing to remember about early cubbing though is that it's not dictated by the severity of the winter. It's dictated by when the vixen came into heat.

 

"The annual estrous period of female red foxes last from 1 to 6 days. Ovulation is spontaneous and does not require copulation to occur. The exact time of oestrus and breeding varies across the broad geographic range of the species: December-January in the south, January-February in the central regions, and February-April in the north."

 

The questions I suppose are- what triggers oestrus? And is a Christmas cub that we hear lots of stories of an 'early' litter of next year or a 'late' one of that year?

[king 11,972]

The thing to remember about early cubbing though is that it's not dictated by the severity of the winter. It's dictated by when the vixen came into heat.

"The annual estrous period of female red foxes last from 1 to 6 days. Ovulation is spontaneous and does not require copulation to occur. The exact time of oestrus and breeding varies across the broad geographic range of the species: December-January in the south, January-February in the central regions, and February-April in the north."

The questions I suppose are- what triggers oestrus? And is a Christmas cub that we hear lots of stories of an 'early' litter of next year or a 'late' one of that year?

Wouldn't a mild winter bring the vixen into heat sooner.

[Crosshair 77]

 

The thing to remember about early cubbing though is that it's not dictated by the severity of the winter. It's dictated by when the vixen came into heat.

"The annual estrous period of female red foxes last from 1 to 6 days. Ovulation is spontaneous and does not require copulation to occur. The exact time of oestrus and breeding varies across the broad geographic range of the species: December-January in the south, January-February in the central regions, and February-April in the north."

The questions I suppose are- what triggers oestrus? And is a Christmas cub that we hear lots of stories of an 'early' litter of next year or a 'late' one of that year?

Wouldn't a mild winter bring the vixen into heat sooner.

That's what I don't know. I had always assumed it was day length that triggered oestrus but these dull, cloudy, wet, mild, low-pressure winters have darker days than a crisp, cold, bright, frosty one.

[Daniel cain 45,482]

 

Haven't seen a cub on the side of the road yet Neil must be getting streetwise lol

 

LOL, is it just me or do all hunting folk slow down to have a look and then feel remorse when they see any wildlife killed on the road.

The only roadkill that doesn't bother me is a dead cat.

lol,I stop regular,on the way to work this morning picked up a mallard still warm,ferrets tucking in as we speak .hate to see things rotting on side of the road.atb dc

[Crosshair 77]

 

 

Haven't seen a cub on the side of the road yet Neil must be getting streetwise lol

LOL, is it just me or do all hunting folk slow down to have a look and then feel remorse when they see any wildlife killed on the road.

The only roadkill that doesn't bother me is a dead cat.

lol,I stop regular,on the way to work this morning picked up a mallard still warm,ferrets tucking in as we speak .hate to see things rotting on side of the road.atb dc

Antis love reeling out the figures about how much more efficient cars are than hunts at killing foxes whilst simultaneously ignoring how inefficiently vehicles actually kill stuff. They should really be donning balaclavas and sabbing Eddie Stobarts main depot- I bet he racks up a good old tally in a season