How Early

[pirate pack 109]

Dog fox traveling miles to find dead lambs you must be joking, foxes see lambs the same has they see any other prey, what most hunting lads don't understand is the fox does most damage in the hunting close season, if you choose not to kill foxes in the spring and summer that's your choice but don't have a moan at lads who are carrying out pest control when its most needed by farmers and keepers

[foxbolter 447]

That's your opinion private pack ill stick to mine .not all foxes are bad foxes some areas farmers don't have any trouble and there's plenty of foxes there why is this

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Because those farmers are hunting folk and won't have a bad word said about foxes killing lambs .

[fat man 4,741]

Farmers naturally panic when seeing a fox or two around lambing time although they not having any trouble with fox they call someone to shoot they then shoot the dog so the vixen then has to rare cubs on her own and then the farmer starts having trouble because the vixen is weak and starts killing lambs in desperation. Where as the dog was traveling miles every night finding dead lambs supporting the vixen

Foxbolter why on earth would a fox travel miles to try find a dead lamb if there is loads running about the area its in,i always took you for a fool but that statement is taking the pee wee.

[foxbolter 447]

It is not as easy as some might think for a fox to take a lamb off a ewe some on here probably wouldn't know how it's done.

[pirate pack 109]

I don't think all foxes are lamb killers,the problem is when your looking after large areas of land you can't aford to give them that chance.I found over the last 30 years the lads who critisie what I do soon forget about it when they want a days digging in the winter.

[king 11,972]

A fox will take the first born lamb but will wait untill the ewe is dropping the second before taking the first as the fox knows the ewe can't do anything to stop him.

An id even say that the fox will do it repeatedly in a field of ewes in 1 night as the food source is so easy to take.

That's the only reason I can see why me and a mate found 5 half eaten newborns within a 100yd strip of land joining 2 fields.

Edited April 14, 2016 by king

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Pic from years ago where the shepherd saw this vixen take these lambs and more ,there was no other cunning needed than speed .It ran in and snatched one ,went off and was back for another .He's not a shooting man and the estate phoned me to deal .Took us a while to find the earth but was evident by the lambs feet sticking out one hole .Foxes are opportunists and will take whatevers most abundant .

[J Darcy 5,871]

I also beleive the dog fox mates and in a rural enviroment stays only while the bitch is reseptive then moves on to find more vixens to serve... if you find a dog around a cub den then i would think hes there to neck a cub or 2 to bring a vixen on again... but its just what i think and my theory so defo not a study or googled.

Disagree buddy. But we've all got our own opinions....

[J Darcy 5,871]

 

 

Interesting TP, did they mention ages of the litters as the vixen can have cubs still hanging around into November/December. If they were born early say March that means they are with the vixen up to 10 months. Anyone else can shed any light on this???

Female cubs can stay within the 'home' territory right through to the next spring I have found. Male cubs less so one presumes. No matter what we think we 'know' about fox behaviour, there's still much we don't know. Fox dynamics change depending on many factors IMO, food being one of them. I believe that they stay 'together' more if they are urban foxes as opposed to country foxes. But thats JMHO.

 

Which is why cub hunting or Autumn hunting was popular in hunt country to disperse litters it was thought .

Does anyone have any pics of a DOG fox at an earth with cubs ,either feeding or just being around .Many have come on here trying to prove the dog feeds the litter too but ive found the opposite .Accounts of it happening are great but a pic would be appreciated or video .

 

I will have a look over the next few days of the piccys I've got. I've lots of cub pics, so it might take a wee while to see......I once recorded some great footage of a vixen suckling cubs, but don't know where the video is now...not that I even had a video to play it on...

[foxbolter 447]

A ewe will naturally protect her lamb she will stamp her feet at a fox as well as making herself look big keeping the lamb underneath her and try and head but a fox when it is trying to take her lamb some foxes are a little cautious when a ewe does this .what they do then is run a circle around the the ewe and lamb making the ewe panic and try to chase the fox off forcing her to leave the lamb the fox then comes off his circle and takes the lamb. Some foxes are good at this and get the hang of it quite good but the way the ewe protects the lamb can be equally good to forcing the fox to move on. It is more common for a fox to take one of twins or triplets has it is harder for the ewe to keep two or three lambs tight to her. Also some ewes will be young mothers and weak at protecting her lamb she even gives birth sometimes and walk off. When you have foxes that are good at mastering taking lambs they can cost the farmer 100s of pounds a night which then have to be culled by any means or form. When the farmer finds a earth with lambs outside but his not having any lambs taken or his neighbours in a big area is the fox taking just dead lambs and better off leaving that fox alone knowing where the cubs are to keep a fox killer out of its territory ? I can only talk from experience shooting when not having trouble can cause trouble too

[neil cooney 10,416]

Pic from years ago where the shepherd saw this vixen take these lambs and more ,there was no other cunning needed than speed .It ran in and snatched one ,went off and was back for another .He's not a shooting man and the estate phoned me to deal .Took us a while to find the earth but was evident by the lambs feet sticking out one hole .Foxes are opportunists and will take whatevers most abundant .

Don't look like sickly 2 day old lambs either.

 

Last year when digging cubs two adult foxes bolted and got away (didn't bother me as hopefully killing the cubs would cease the problem) and after backfilling I spotted an adult fox heading towards us from a different direction to those that bolted. IMO it was heading towards the earth with purpose and was a third adult. So I would say at times other adults (probably last years) will help during the breeding season.

Also as someone said, that research show that foxes will breed all year round bar December.

I would think that research would be based on maybe one or at most two litters because lets face it, most of us on here have killed thousands of foxes by different methods and I personally have never heard of a pregnant or milky vixen from August to December. But maybe it's possible.

[Haiddheliwr 1,911]

Nice one JD if you can find anything to give any light on this. A friend was out the other night where two foxes were woking together, the

farmer had witnessed this and also my friend but although I have been called to similar situations and dealt with the problem but have not seen it myself. I think Neil at the time of year you state although the cubs maybe are still with the vixen they would probably be fending for themselves and not reliant on the vixen. I am still in the opinion that vixens only have the one litter

[Haiddheliwr 1,911]

I think any sensible farmer FB on finding lambs outside an earth would take appropriate action. Whether they are his lambs or not the vixen, dog fox or barren vixen are supplying the cubs with a neighbours lambs. Could be that particular farmer has lambed early before the vixen had cubbed so to get a smaller source of food have to travel further afield to achieve this

[pirate pack 109]

Its sometime a hard balance between making sure you have enough work for your dogs and keeping farmers and gamekeepers happy,2 terrier lads I met told me how they lost their only perm on 3000 acre estate when the land owner through is bedroom window watched them let animal go at end of dig,hard lesson learnt.