Why Does It Matter... When It Comes To Breeding?

[Hamish.J.Cronan 13]

Forgive my ignorance, and this may have already been covered elsewhere but I was hoping for a bit more clarity in my head - I understand the benefits of F1's but having just been reading a thread where someone asked if it 'was the dam that was _____*' (*breed) when talking of a f1/pure breed X...

 

On someone's recommendation from here I read Plummer's book on lurcher breeding some time ago, i either missed the bit where he talks about the following but it got me wondering what difference you think it makes in breeding - would pups tend to throw more one way or the other if it was a pure breed dam or pure bred sire when mated with a 1X or would it just be a case that some may turn out to lean either way hence the wastage in breeding back?

 

Further more, when it comes to breeding to 3/4's do you think that dam/sire's make up/purity makes a difference?

 

Thanks all!

[sandymere 8,263]

Genes are predictable unpredictable to a point but if you breed a pure to a half bred, say a collie grey to a grey then the pups will be ¾ grey so are likely to, on the whole , be a pretty level litter. With line bred hybrid’s that are heavily saturated with one or two breeds, ie saluki/grey hybrids then again litters will on the whole be level. In both cases the odd throw back will occur occasionally. With bitza lurchers with multiple breed ancestry then there is a much greater degree of variability hence it often suggested an occasional outcross to a pure or line bred type to bring a stabilising effect on the line. This is seen when a bitza lurcher type is bred with a coursing type that has a preponderance of saluki/ grey blood. The pups are likely to level out a bit as the genes from the sight hound ancestors are likely to link from both parents reducing the chance of, say collie or terrier, genes linking throwing back causing wastage.

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Hmm,...As I once told the verminous creature,.."One man's wastage,.is another man's ideal type"

Edited April 5, 2016 by Phil Lloyd

[two crows 3,342]

your right there phil, and nobody produced more wastage than him trying to reinvent the wheel, atb two crows.

[roybo 2,873]

like coursing type that has a preponderance of saluki/ grey blood. The pups are likely to level out a bit as the genes from the sight hound ancestors are likely to link from both parents reducing the chance of, say collie or terrier, genes linking throwing back causing wastage.

That's right they will tend to throw towards the coursing type but can be to the detriment as well as the good ,particularly if there's a trait you want to keep from the other lurcher.

[sandymere 8,263]

Indeed, as with all things there is a risk of negative as well as positive and the more you dilute the lurcher with sighthound the more it becomes a sighthound which is not to everyone’s taste or work need. My 1^st lurcher was given away as wastage as it threw to the collie to a high degree. I had a lot of fun with it as a young lad and it led to my lifelong love of lurchers. Litter wastage can come from both ends with dogs that throw too much to the sighthound not suiting as much as the other end of the spectrum. For me the worst scenario would be a dog with the look of a sighthound that had the physical heart size and lower blood count of the none sighthound, a sheep in wolfs clothing.

 

 

A pic I did of my first lurcher type though in name rather than physicality, we didn’t catch many rabbits but we both learnt a lot.

 

[roybo 2,873]

Well what I mean ,is using any line bred lurcher over either a bitsa or scatter bred dog will throw strongly towards the line bred animal .

If there are certain traits be it physical or mental ,you may lose what made you breed from in the first place,

Unless that don't matter and you are just using the bitch to have pups .

[TOMO 26,127]

Hmm,...As I once told the verminous creature,.."One man's wastage,.is another man's ideal type"

 

Thought you two were best buddy's ,,,

[Astanley 11,568]

"Litter wastage " ...what a repulsive turn of phrase to use when talking about pups .

[Chaff 3,619]

"Litter wastage " ...what a repulsive turn of phrase to use when talking about pups .

Nicer than "bucket job"

[two crows 3,342]

litter wastage is a horrible term, so it is important if breeding first crosses where the parents come from either end of the spectrum (IE collie x greyhound) to be prepared to match owners with individual pups, I know we don't live in an ideal world but if we breed we are responsible. I am glad I am a sight hound man but you still have to be care full dog swappers abound in all walks of the lurcher game and good pups are often turned into wastage by bad dog men. I wonder how many dogs the good dog men get through beffor you see the superstar ?. ATB two crows.

[NEWKID 27,152]

litter wastage is a horrible term, so it is important if breeding first crosses where the parents come from either end of the spectrum (IE collie x greyhound) to be prepared to match owners with individual pups, I know we don't live in an ideal world but if we breed we are responsible. I am glad I am a sight hound man but you still have to be care full dog swappers abound in all walks of the lurcher game and good pups are often turned into wastage by bad dog men. I wonder how many dogs the good dog men get through beffor you see the superstar ?. ATB two crows.

Might be a bit soft but if/ when I was to breed a litter I'd be more concerned with the people having them, caring for them correctly etc then the chance of them making a superstar...

[sandymere 8,263]

Gosh we have become a sensitive bunch if a traditional term like "litter wastage" is so frowned upon. After all it has no meaning in regard of the outcome for the pup just that it is unlikely to fulfil the job it was bred to do and so would be better suited to a pet home or one that has a more specialist role that would suit that individual animal.

 

 

Having said that some dogs don't make the grade either through breeding or plain bad luck and I for one would rather put an animal down that have it passed from pillar to post at the hand of peddlars.

[Somewhereyournot 1,117]

If you have decided to breed animals for work and they are no good in my opinion it is your duty to deal with dogs that don't do as you want. Without passing them on like samdymere has said.

[FUJI 17,288]

I've yet to see a dog capable of being at the top of its game when it comes to multi tasking should we call it? They all have flaws,all could be called litter wastage to someone,make good of what you have,work the dog to it's strengths,be prepared to change your own hunting ways to give your dog a chance of fullfilling it's potential..anyone prepared to show me this superstar all round top of the tree dog then shout up,id love to see it ?