Old Timers

[fat man 4,741]

Was chatting to an old lad earlier on while down getting fuel in the van.He was asking me do i still be at the digging as a few year ago a son of his used to tag along an odd sunday.I replied yes and have only finished for the season a couple of wks back.He then asked what sort of terrier i keep and was it russells as they are the best according to him.I said no patterdales,[black dogs] as i knew he never seen 1.He then asked were they good sounders and when i said not really they tend to be mute he turned and started to laugh saying how the f**k do you dig them so.I 5then told him we have locaters and collers on the terriers which amused him greatly.Then he said that 60 year ago he used to do a bit with a couple of men local which i knew but were all dead now and that they would meet up every sunday morning and away with them.I asked what they kept and what they dug knowing well it was some sort of russells and he said mainly pets but if 1 went to ground the rest would follow and the racket would be great under the ground,i said im not surprised,they were probably killing each other and then he said that they could nearly always call them out if it was deep,at this stage i was trying to make excuses to get away,lol.He then proceeded to tell me a story of 1 time down in a place i dig to this day that they entered 2 terriers 1 morning and after a couple of hours of listening and trying to call them out there was no sign so they decided to smoke them out,at this i said ye WHAT,yes he said there was a reek of old hay in the corner of the field and they duly stuffed the holes with hay leaving just the 1 open then lit the hay.I asked just bieng curious did it work and he said no,never got them,i just shook me head and bid him goodbye.

[ryan12 95]

That sounds like some of the old times round here big fans of putting two in?

[resistance 189]

Wonder why ha.poor buggers

[neil cooney 10,416]

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past.

Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting terrierwork were brought in in the late 70s ,early 80s, well before Facebook and similar shite.

It was the deeds and methods of old that started the rot within terrierwork that we now pay for.

You hear of the legends of old when they had the freedom to do what they wanted, where they wanted. But when you sit them down, have a chat you'll usually

uncover the truth.

The terrierman of today who has reached an expert standard with good terriers in this day and age is IMO a much better man.

[morton 5,368]

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past.

Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting terrierwork were brought in in the late 70s ,early 80s, well before Facebook and similar shite.

It was the deeds and methods of old that started the rot within terrierwork that we now pay for.

You hear of the legends of old when they had the freedom to do what they wanted, where they wanted. But when you sit them down, have a chat you'll usually

uncover the truth.

The terrierman of today who has reached an expert standard with good terriers in this day and age is IMO a much better man.

Totally disagree with most of that neil,the standard of terriers and their owners as been on the decline for decades.Even in the "good olde days" there was the mischievous chancer on the make and in the mix amidst the many genuine and vastly experienced working terrier folk about.Genuine working terriers were once common and the stamp was never mentioned,workers came ready bred to it.The rosette hunters,the dollar chasers,the internet and the ego are all a modern trait that as swiftly crawled into working terriers,the terrier men of olde,most of them,would not have suffered the fools we take as standard now.

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past.

Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting terrierwork were brought in in the late 70s ,early 80s, well before Facebook and similar shite.

It was the deeds and methods of old that started the rot within terrierwork that we now pay for.

You hear of the legends of old when they had the freedom to do what they wanted, where they wanted. But when you sit them down, have a chat you'll usually

uncover the truth.

The terrierman of today who has reached an expert standard with good terriers in this day and age is IMO a much better man.

Totally disagree with most of that neil,the standard of terriers and their owners as been on the decline for decades.Even in the "good olde days" there was the mischievous chancer on the make and in the mix amidst the many genuine and vastly experienced working terrier folk about.Genuine working terriers were once common and the stamp was never mentioned,workers came ready bred to it.The rosette hunters,the dollar chasers,the internet and the ego are all a modern trait that as swiftly crawled into working terriers,the terrier men of olde,most of them,would not have suffered the fools we take as standard now.

 

Genuine terriers are still common IMO.

Rosette hunters have been around since the 1920s.

There's always been those who chase the £££££££££.

Egos have always been there.

I admit,the inter net is new but the inter net doesn't decide what dog to put over what bitch. That's up to the terrierman.

Today, it's not considered good practice to use more than one terrier, to not use a locator, to hunt for sport in the breeding season.

It's common nowadays to hear of terriermen releasing game, backfilling properly, despatching game quickly, gifting unwanted pups, giving terriers excellent after care, to keep pedigrees, to take notice of a terriers diet.

If you take the risk of the SPCAs wanting to kill all working terriers away then IMO the working terrier of today never had it so good, and the quarry that they hunt for that matter.

The only thing IMO that the terrierman of yesteryear was generally better at was the manual side of things but lets face it in those days a dozen diggers at an earth wasn't uncommon whereas today it's usually 2 or 3 lads digging with better tools and in deeper holes so IMO the terrierman of today is probably as good if not better at digging than those of years ago too.

I know there's cowboys today, as there was years ago but I'm saying that those who know what they're doing nowadays are a lot better than those who knew what they were doing years ago.

And that goes for terriers too.

[dillydog 8,463]

I'd agree with you Neil, the standard from what I've personally seen is by far better than what I knew when I started. Every one of the old boys around me two'd up, if they say other when in company they wouldn't say it in font of me, I'd be on them like a tramp on a bag of chips.

Look at all the fuss about Smithy, Toddy and Nancy and well I could go on and on but at the end of the day they were simply a terrier doing it's job.

[morton 5,368]

 

 

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past.

Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting terrierwork were brought in in the late 70s ,early 80s, well before Facebook and similar shite.

It was the deeds and methods of old that started the rot within terrierwork that we now pay for.

You hear of the legends of old when they had the freedom to do what they wanted, where they wanted. But when you sit them down, have a chat you'll usually

uncover the truth.

The terrierman of today who has reached an expert standard with good terriers in this day and age is IMO a much better man.

Totally disagree with most of that neil,the standard of terriers and their owners as been on the decline for decades.Even in the "good olde days" there was the mischievous chancer on the make and in the mix amidst the many genuine and vastly experienced working terrier folk about.Genuine working terriers were once common and the stamp was never mentioned,workers came ready bred to it.The rosette hunters,the dollar chasers,the internet and the ego are all a modern trait that as swiftly crawled into working terriers,the terrier men of olde,most of them,would not have suffered the fools we take as standard now.

 

Genuine terriers are still common IMO.

Rosette hunters have been around since the 1920s.

There's always been those who chase the £££££££££.

Egos have always been there.

I admit,the inter net is new but the inter net doesn't decide what dog to put over what bitch. That's up to the terrierman.

Today, it's not considered good practice to use more than one terrier, to not use a locator, to hunt for sport in the breeding season.

It's common nowadays to hear of terriermen releasing game, backfilling properly, despatching game quickly, gifting unwanted pups, giving terriers excellent after care, to keep pedigrees, to take notice of a terriers diet.

If you take the risk of the SPCAs wanting to kill all working terriers away then IMO the working terrier of today never had it so good, and the quarry that they hunt for that matter.

The only thing IMO that the terrierman of yesteryear was generally better at was the manual side of things but lets face it in those days a dozen diggers at an earth wasn't uncommon whereas today it's usually 2 or 3 lads digging with better tools and in deeper holes so IMO the terrierman of today is probably as good if not better at digging than those of years ago too.

I know there's cowboys today, as there was years ago but I'm saying that those who know what they're doing nowadays are a lot better than those who knew what they were doing years ago.

And that goes for terriers too.

 

I don,t believe digging terriers played as big a part of the hunting life of the olde time terrier men,especially dependant on the part of the country they resided in,digging terriers are more of a modern terriermans kennel,generally.

[hjckcff 1,738]

well my first impression of terrierwork was in lancashire. i was allowed to tag along with a few older hands when i was a spotty kid, there would have been no two in a bed nonsense. the dogs had to be right up for the job and the lads where like fecking JCBs . they knew there stuff alright. the only difference i could see from then till now was the fact that the dogs where dug to without a locator. although they had one between them. i never saw it used. there was no mercy from them if a dog wasnt right it never came home with them. oversized terriers or mute terriers wouldnt be of any use to them. they used coloured terriers . border/lackies. and patterdales. off the buck/breay. nuttal stuff.my first terriers came from these. and they where as good as any ive seen to this day. and better than most, these terriers where from generations of unbroken working lines. i reckon what was standard then . will still be about but no where near as common. there have always been fools in any way of life . sounds to me like the fools of yesterday are being compared to the gents of today. the best dogs of today. came from the older generation.

[sounder79 80]

dick head

[dillydog 8,463]

Every modern dog comes from dogs from yesteryear, that's obvious, the things a few of the older generation did (especially the boys you talk about) was to show us there was another way.

Two'ing up still goes on, I personally saw a hunt terrier man drop three terriers in for his fox while out with a Shropshire pack last week. This boys in a book, flashing lights and everything, it certainly doesn't make him a terrier man in my eyes, useless c**t.

Hats off too the generation of good terrier men that paved the way for good honest lads to keep a yard of single handed terriers. DR was the name I'd hear when I was an up and coming and he personally (although never meeting him) set the bar high and gave me something to aim at.

Edited February 28, 2016 by dillydog

[neil cooney 10,416]

Sometimes I think there does be confusion as what eras where considered those of the old timer and the modern era.

There's young lads keeping terriers now that would consider you and I, Dillydog, as old fellahs whereas you and I would be talking about lads in their 60s and 70s as the generation before us.

IMO the tightening up of bloodlines and the art of good single handed terrierwork started in the 70s into the 80s and IMO the late 80s into the 90s was a golden age of terrierwork.

In those years it was possible to go where you wanted without much fear of someone questioning your activities and there was a great standard of terrier and terrierman emerging. I also think it was those years when lads started considering terrierwork as more of a sporting activity than pure pest control where it didn't matter how you got your quarry as long as you got it.

I started digging in the mid 80s and those who were showing me the ropes had learned their methods in the late 60s, early 70s.

Strongdogs (the more the merrier) and tongs were essential pieces of kit and I don't think I ever seen a firearm on a dig 'till I went out on my own.

I will say one thing about those lads though, I never seen them work one above the sod, it was a big NO NO, and most quarry was released.

But it wasn't uncommon to bag one, bring it home and try a pup or two in a shore. It would be brought back to it's home that evening.

But since those rough and ready days I've seen terrierwork graduate into a much more polished art and in the last few years some of the best terriermen I've ever seen are what I'd call young lads.

It's great to see it and IMO it shows a good healthy future for terrierwork.

[Plucky1 1,119]

Great honest post Neil Cooney,unfortunately there are many still stuck in those dark days before legislation and not using firearms to despatch,they will be the ones that will end what little terrier work there is left,I always used a gun for a quick despatch but that was not a common practise among the lads that shown me, the biggest difference we did that the old boys didn't was the use of good terriers to bush fox to either lurchers or gun,they were very old fashioned gang handed and the only time the terrier was slipped off a lead was to enter an earth and sometimes it would be an all day event, the best thing to happen to terrier work in my lifetime has been the introduction of locators,changed terrier work making it a much safer event,WM

Edited February 28, 2016 by Plucky1

[steve t 931]

some of the stuff ive seen old boys do would make you shudder, went to one fellas house one morning and he said ill just get my stuff, I went to shed and he had a vast array of gaffs and bayonets attatched to handles, for stabbing or pulling stuff out, what a job I had convincing him to leave it in shed, never again.

[sounder79 80]

Great honest post Neil Cooney,unfortunately there are many still stuck in those dark days before legislation and not using firearms to despatch,they will be the ones that will end what little terrier work there is left,I always used a gun for a quick despatch but that was not a common practise among the lads that shown me, the biggest difference we did that the old boys didn't was the use of good terriers to bush fox to either lurchers or gun,they were very old fashioned gang handed and the only time the terrier was slipped off a lead was to enter an earth and sometimes it would be an all day event, the best thing to happen to terrier work in my lifetime has been the introduction of locators,changed terrier work making it a much safer event,WM

what are you on about ? the old boys didnt use terriers to bush fox ? They used everthing they had. The only time a terrier was slipped was to enter an earth ?

its the new generation that has terriers on leads ,old timers didnt even have leads . where i come from anyway