Flipper_Al 1,012 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 So here's me two p's worth The Uk joined the EU in 73, then a referendum to continue in 75 One of the major benefits was free trade agreements Now lets not confuse our joining of the EU, with the later Schengen Agreement signed in 85, to reduce boarder controls and allow people to move within the EU(UK Boarder Policy's still stood) So where does that leave US now.. well imo, if your not exporting within the EU, very little will change, but if you are.....then your now going to have to start negotiating trade agreements, with each EU country you want to export to... sure there will be an offset if you need to import, but these sort of agreements take years to establish Business will be effected Aston Martin export 20% into Europe.... http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/03/03/aston-martin-wont-pressure-staff-on-eu-referendum/ One other thing is that this decision....probably wont effect me, but may have a massive effect on my kids, and grandchildren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I don't understand voter apathy - I get why people are disillusioned with politics, but I don't see how they think abstaining will make any difference. We have the once in a lifetime referendum (take note, Scotland !), and all I seem to hear is pessimistic cries of "a leap in the dark", or threats to break up the Union, if one side doesn't get its way.......its depressing! We have our own PM talking the country down, saying we'd be " less safe, weaker and worse off" without the backing of our age-old friends in Germany ! We have the 5th largest economy in the world, so I don't understand suggestions that our trading power would be reduced by a vote to leave. China and USA seem to do OK outside the EU ! France's second biggest trading partner is USA, and China has massive trading figures with the whole of the EU and indeed, the rest of the world......... Does anyone seriously believe that BMW or EDF (Energie de France) would say "Right, they've voted to leave. Close the factories, sell the assets, you're all sacked!" ? The 'Remainers' are rather like a prisoner finding that the cell door has been left unlocked, but he doesn't escape in case it rains tomorrow ! One of my concerns, which I don't know how valid it is, is that the EU will do everything with in their power to punish the UK in the case of Brexit. To see the UK flourish or even just do okay in that situation would only encourage further EU breakup. Also, another totally separate concern, where does this leave Gibraltar? Are they treated as a separate entity to the UK within the EU? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 One of my concerns, which I don't know how valid it is, is that the EU will do everything with in their power to punish the UK in the case of Brexit. To see the UK flourish or even just do okay in that situation would only encourage further EU breakup. Also, another totally separate concern, where does this leave Gibraltar? Are they treated as a separate entity to the UK within the EU? So in answer to my second question, Gibraltar are a Special Member State Territory, however their membership is dependent on the UK's. So if we're out, they're out. Which raises even more questions in my head. Could they renegotiate their own membership? How secure is Gibraltar in the event that they are forced to remain outside of the EU? I'm sure none of this is of great concern to anybody else, just something that crossed my mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 BH I'd worry about your own island before Gibraltar Ah, so f**k anybody that my actions might affect? The future of the UK is in part tied to the future of Gibraltar. It's part of this problem and to ignore it isn't quite in my nature. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Id put this Islands well being and the lives of 60 plus million Brits and their future before a Rock off Spain and a few thousand ex pats They can always move back here if they did have to join the EU in the event of a out vote. Did I say I wouldn't? You don't just make a list of you're concerns and then only bother to consider the greatest! Yes, Gib citizens could move to the UK but that's not really my concern. My concern is how dependent on the EU Gib is and the implications of them having to leave on both them and us. It's a minor concern. Something that doesn't need to be made a big deal of if you're not interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ragumup Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) The EU's probably going to go bust anyway (Greece , Spain ) so get out before it does then hopefully other member states will get out as well so it would be doing them a favour... The EU already does everything in their power to punish the UK they out voted us 72 times, in fact more than any other state, so much for having say in it ! In regard to trade no one try's to upset their customers so trade will continue almost unabated... Edited March 7, 2016 by ragumup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 The EU's probably going to go bust anyway (Greece , Spain ) so get out before it does then hopefully other member states will get out as well so it would be doing them a favour... The EU already does everything in their power to punish the UK they out voted us 72 times, in fact more than any other state, so much for having say in it ! In regard to trade no one try's to upset their customers so trade will continue almost unabated... Good post, but I'm of the opinion that the EU can definitely make life harder for us if they wanted to and no one can guarantee that trade will go on unabated. I'm equally of the opinion I'd rather be a poor free man than a rich enslaved one. In a post Brexit scenario the EU is the bigger fish, they can tolerate loosing trade with the UK more than we can with them by nature of their size. There's no guarantees in this. I'm inclined to agree with you on how it'll play out but I do wonder if I'm underestimating the EU's resolve...... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,344 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I understand everyone's financial concerns, and I have not doubt Britain will have to endure a fair bit of pain.......but you have to ask yourself, what price freedom? Because make no mistake, the EU is a deeply sinister cabal who's sole aim seems to be money and power above the democratic freedom of its citizens. If by "future" for grandkids you mean being a slave on the wheel to feed the ever increasing demand for tax money by this massive organisation so that they can make laws to help the big corporates that walk hand in hand with them......then a vote to stay will indeed secure that future. Have a look at Greece......I mean really have a look at what's been and being done to that country.......that could easily be the UK if the powers decide to make it so. That's real......and it's happening now !! Wake up !! You are bang in trouble, I mean it's bad ! What type of future do you want is what this vote is all about......do you want to decide it or do you want people you didn't elect to decide it based on what's best for them?....... Forget all the "recovery" blah blah......none of this money exists.......at all !!.........they just logged on and added a few more zeros to the ECB account confident that you, your kids, your grandkids and their grandkids would be working for them forever to keep paying it in!.........that's not living, that's being a f***ing slave! Britain deserves to exist and its big enough to live as an independent, strong, historic country that is governed by its own people. Maybe a new car or telly next year means more than that? 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,569 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I'd stick my neck out and say that the ex-pats of Gibraltar have more allegiance to the UK than to the EU....... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,368 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Great post wilf mate, an ragumup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil82 1,080 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Id put this Islands well being and the lives of 60 plus million Brits and their future before a Rock off Spain and a few thousand ex pats They can always move back here if they did have to join the EU in the event of a out vote. Did I say I wouldn't? You don't just make a list of you're concerns and then only bother to consider the greatest! Yes, Gib citizens could move to the UK but that's not really my concern. My concern is how dependent on the EU Gib is and the implications of them having to leave on both them and us. It's a minor concern. Something that doesn't need to be made a big deal of if you're not interested. considering how much spain hates gib`s very existence and does everything it can to block cross border trade I don`t think the EU is of that great a consequence to them 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ragumup Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 The EU is a corporatist racket....socialist France will go bust without the UK's money keeping it afloat and as has been said over and over again The EU sell us far more than we sell them so if they try to punish us with tariffs ,we could do the same to them and they would suffer more. China America and many countries smaller than the UK buy and sell to the EU without being in political union ... We can do the same don't listen to the scare tactics of our government. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Id put this Islands well being and the lives of 60 plus million Brits and their future before a Rock off Spain and a few thousand ex pats They can always move back here if they did have to join the EU in the event of a out vote. Did I say I wouldn't? You don't just make a list of you're concerns and then only bother to consider the greatest! Yes, Gib citizens could move to the UK but that's not really my concern. My concern is how dependent on the EU Gib is and the implications of them having to leave on both them and us. It's a minor concern. Something that doesn't need to be made a big deal of if you're not interested. considering how much spain hates gib`s very existence and does everything it can to block cross border trade I don`t think the EU is of that great a consequence to them No, but they do use EU law to level this out. Outside the EU the Spanish could possibly really isolate the Gibraltarians from the mainland, physically and economically. This would seriously weaken Gibraltar and open them up to the Spanish taking greater and greater liberties with Gib sovereignty. A nationalistic popularity move not unheard of when times are hard.... End game, the UK has to make a stance or lose the territory and all that goes with it. Not something that would look good for a UK trying to build strength outside the EU with the whole world watching. Just something that crossed my mind. Anyway, back to more significant concerns... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) The EU is a corporatist racket....socialist France will go bust without the UK's money keeping it afloat and as has been said over and over again The EU sell us far more than we sell them so if they try to punish us with tariffs ,we could do the same to them and they would suffer more. China America and many countries smaller than the UK buy and sell to the EU without being in political union ... We can do the same don't listen to the scare tactics of our government.I don't really understand how the UK would suffer less than the EU. Unless they can't find some essential product/service anywhere else then by virtue of their size they can dilute the effects of a loss of trade with us far more easily than we could with them. We could definitely operate with the EU under new agreements as many other nations do but only IF the EU treat us as equals to these other nations. IF they wanted to make an example of us to deter further breakup then we have to find other markets. The European market is simply the best option due to its size, type and location. Of course obvious attempts to punish us would look very bad on the world stage politically but then they might see total collapse as the alternative. Be interesting to read an analysts view. Edited March 7, 2016 by Born Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,344 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 When folk say "suffer" for getting our country back.....do they mean in same way that a load of kids storming Gold, Sword, Juno etc type suffer ? I wonder if they were wondering "how will this affect the economy?" As they saw all their mates floating in the sea and being cut to bits 3 yards into the beach? Makes you think don't it 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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