neil82 1,080 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 scotland, wales or ni shouldnt be dragged out the eu on englands vote.. if it happens, then id welcome indyref2 scary thing is Wales, more so North Wales will probably vote to stay in, the land around here is good for f/all except sheep and they get too much in grants to risk losing it unless the UK gov comes up with a way of replacing it, which they won`t do as they want a stay in vote, plus most of the voters up here are as brainwashed as the sheep into voting for Plaid all the time no matter how useless the tossers are Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,569 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) The only issue I have with what you state Joe is Cameron did not come away with anything but proposals that will not be law. Truth be told he came away empty handed. TC "We will never join the Euro" - it was never going to happen. Never, ever an issue !"No involvement in "ever-closer union" - we've never had any and have been exempt since Thatchers days ! "Opting out of open border schemes" - we already have and had no intent of ever taking part ! "Safeguards for financial operations in the City" - the government has gone to the European court several times, to challenge EU policy on banking, claiming it is too restrictive ! So most of the conditions of our "new, special relationship" already exist and have for some time ! Lies upon lies upon lies ! But, his trumpeted restrictions on in-work benefits is his biggest illusion...... Firstly, it will only save around £30 million - in the grand scheme of things, this is pocket money. And besides, 85% of EU migrants dont claim any benefits in their first 4 years here, anyway ! He will happily take money from working people, but let his mates at Google negotiate their own tax bill ! A paltry amount blown up almost as big as Cameron's ego..... Secondly, he is aiming to save this small amount by restricting access to a benefit (Working Tax Credits) that is being phased out ! (To be replaced by the similar crock of 5hit he calls the National Living Wage) None of his "hard-won concessions" will have any effect on EU migration - he knows it and the other European leaders know it - smoke and mirrors dressed up as tough negotiations, nothing more, nothing less. The truth is that he went to Brussels, asked for almost nothing and got even less ! Suppose we vote to stay in - who's to say that the "new" agreements won't be legally challenged in the European court ?, Or that the European parliament won't raise objections ? Or that one of the other countries has a new leader ? Or that other member states won't agree uness they get concessions of their own ? (Greece and the Eastern states will soon face the massive summer migrant influx, further diluting and threatening the European identity). The European Union shows no will for meaningful reform. It is a dysfunctional, labyrinthine bureaucracy that has become unsustainable and I believe that it will become unravelled in the next 5 years. Why anyone would want to be a part of a crumbling empire is beyond me.......... Cameron is an idiot of the highest order and I can only hope that he becomes the architect of his own undoing ! Edited February 22, 2016 by Blackbriar 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknife 2,005 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I wonder what Sturgeon will do if Scotland votes in favor of leaving the EU......But the British stay vote wins Call for a referendum What if Scotland votes to stay in Europe and those votes give the stay camp the % needed to win over a majority English leave vote................the Scottish Nationalists are happy so thats all that matters Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 The only issue I have with what you state Joe is Cameron did not come away with anything but proposals that will not be law. Truth be told he came away empty handed. TC "We will never join the Euro" - it was never going to happen. Never, ever an issue !"No involvement in "ever-closer union" - we've never had any and have been exempt since Thatchers days ! "Opting out of open border schemes" - we already have and had no intent of ever taking part ! "Safeguards for financial operations in the City" - the government has gone to the European court several times, to challenge EU policy on banking, claiming it is too restrictive ! So most of the conditions of our "new, special relationship" already exist and have for some time ! Lies upon lies upon lies ! But, his trumpeted restrictions on in-work benefits is his biggest illusion...... Firstly, it will only save around £30 million - in the grand scheme of things, this is pocket money. And besides, 85% of EU migrants dont claim any benefits in their first 4 years here, anyway ! He will happily take money from working people, but let his mates at Google negotiate their own tax bill ! A paltry amount blown up almost as big as Cameron's ego..... Secondly, he is aiming to save this small amount by restricting access to a benefit (Working Tax Credits) that is being phased out ! (To be replaced by the similar crock of 5hit he calls the National Living Wage) None of his "hard-won concessions" will have any effect on EU migration - he knows it and the other European leaders know it - smoke and mirrors dressed up as tough negotiations, nothing more, nothing less. The truth is that he went to Brussels, asked for almost nothing and got even less ! Suppose we vote to stay in - who's to say that the "new" agreements won't be legally challenged in the European court ?, Or that the European parliament won't raise objections ? Or that one of the other countries has a new leader ? Or that other member states won't agree uness they get concessions of their own ? (Greece and the Eastern states will soon face the massive summer migrant influx, further diluting and threatening the European identity). The European Union shows no will for meaningful reform. It is a dysfunctional, labyrinthine bureaucracy that has become unsustainable and I believe that it will become unravelled in the next 5 years. Why anyone would want to be a part of a crumbling empire is beyond me.......... Cameron is an idiot of the highest order and I can only hope that he becomes the architect of his own undoing ! And that is why ah'm oot, as Duncan Bannatyne would say Seriously brilliant post pal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,569 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) The only issue I have with what you state Joe is Cameron did not come away with anything but proposals that will not be law. Truth be told he came away empty handed. TC "We will never join the Euro" - it was never going to happen. Never, ever an issue !"No involvement in "ever-closer union" - we've never had any and have been exempt since Thatchers days ! "Opting out of open border schemes" - we already have and had no intent of ever taking part ! "Safeguards for financial operations in the City" - the government has gone to the European court several times, to challenge EU policy on banking, claiming it is too restrictive ! So most of the conditions of our "new, special relationship" already exist and have for some time ! Lies upon lies upon lies ! But, his trumpeted restrictions on in-work benefits is his biggest illusion...... Firstly, it will only save around £30 million - in the grand scheme of things, this is pocket money. And besides, 85% of EU migrants dont claim any benefits in their first 4 years here, anyway ! He will happily take money from working people, but let his mates at Google negotiate their own tax bill ! A paltry amount blown up almost as big as Cameron's ego..... Secondly, he is aiming to save this small amount by restricting access to a benefit (Working Tax Credits) that is being phased out ! (To be replaced by the similar crock of 5hit he calls the National Living Wage) None of his "hard-won concessions" will have any effect on EU migration - he knows it and the other European leaders know it - smoke and mirrors dressed up as tough negotiations, nothing more, nothing less. The truth is that he went to Brussels, asked for almost nothing and got even less ! Suppose we vote to stay in - who's to say that the "new" agreements won't be legally challenged in the European court ?, Or that the European parliament won't raise objections ? Or that one of the other countries has a new leader ? Or that other member states won't agree uness they get concessions of their own ? (Greece and the Eastern states will soon face the massive summer migrant influx, further diluting and threatening the European identity). The European Union shows no will for meaningful reform. It is a dysfunctional, labyrinthine bureaucracy that has become unsustainable and I believe that it will become unravelled in the next 5 years. Why anyone would want to be a part of a crumbling empire is beyond me.......... Cameron is an idiot of the highest order and I can only hope that he becomes the architect of his own undoing ! And that is why ah'm oot, as Duncan Bannatyne would say Seriously brilliant post pal So, here we are on the same side of the fence, mate. Strange days indeed.... Edited February 22, 2016 by Blackbriar 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,838 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Trust me if Cameron says black the sturgeon biatch will say white, so to ask what way will Scotland vote, the total opposite of Cameron n co, just because she can Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,569 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Can anyone really see Boris coming out in support of Leave (but not campaigning or debating Cameron on it, wouldn't want to rock the boat too much!) effecting anyones vote? Seems to me most folks views on The EU are already pretty firmly set and I can't see the undecideds being swayed by some politician or other telling them which way to vote, it's a pretty personal decision for most folk, IMO. The politicians are just a side show for the media to focus on. You're right, most views are entrenched, so the vote will swing on the few percentage of "undecideds". And that's where someone like Boris Johnson comes in...... Boris is well known, Boris is popular. Boris gets interviewed, Boris gets on the news. Now, I'm not a particular fan of Boris Johnson, but he brings a certain gravitas to the cause. Without him, the "Leave" campaign has a failed former Tory leader, a couple of ministers no-one ever heard of, Nigel Farage (definitely the Marmite politician) and George Galloway (the less said the better !). News crews were camped outside his house all day, such is the weight he carries. Apart from Cameron, he is the best known politician in the country. So, can his presence change minds ? Absolutely !! I'm not a particular fan of Boris, but I know he is more than a match for Cameron,and now the gloves are off, I reckon David had better watch out! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Can anyone really see Boris coming out in support of Leave (but not campaigning or debating Cameron on it, wouldn't want to rock the boat too much!) effecting anyones vote? Seems to me most folks views on The EU are already pretty firmly set and I can't see the undecideds being swayed by some politician or other telling them which way to vote, it's a pretty personal decision for most folk, IMO. The politicians are just a side show for the media to focus on. You're right, most views are entrenched, so the vote will swing on the few percentage of "undecideds". And that's where someone like Boris Johnson comes in......Boris is well known, Boris is popular. Boris gets interviewed, Boris gets on the news. Now, I'm not a particular fan of Boris Johnson, but he brings a certain gravitas to the cause. Without him, the "Leave" campaign has a failed former Tory leader, a couple of ministers no-one ever heard of, Nigel Farage (definitely the Marmite politician) and George Galloway (the less said the better !). News crews were camped outside his house all day, such is the weight he carries. Apart from Cameron, he is the best known politician in the country. So, can his presence change minds ? Absolutely !! I'm not a particular fan of Boris, but I know he is more than a match for Cameron,and now the gloves are off, I reckon David had better watch out! I'd agree with all of this if Johnson hadn't already said he won't be actively campaigning. We won't be seeing all the interviews and QuestionTime appearances he could no doubt generate because he doesn't want to rock the boat too much, his announcement that he will be voting to leave seems to be all we'll be getting. If it turns out he does take a more active role in campaigning for Leave then I agree the airtime and column inches we know he can generate can only be a good thing and with his relatively likable public image it could definitely sway some fencesitters but I have a feeling this is just political maneuvering on his part, he won't want to heavily associate himself with the campaign incase it doesn't go his way. Incidentally the Tories have basically thrown the London Mayoral election in the last couple of days with Johnson and their candidate Zac Goldsmith both coming out in support of voting Leave. Pissing off migrants, bankers and big business isn't the best election strategy in London Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil82 1,080 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 thing with all this is, no one can deny that the EU needs a serious overhaul, in both their aims and the way they work now, vote to stay in and nothing will change, vote out and maybe they will realise that the way they are trying to work is wrong and they may be the ones who make concessions to try and get it to continue in some form or another, but in its current state it needs to go 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil82 1,080 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Can anyone really see Boris coming out in support of Leave (but not campaigning or debating Cameron on it, wouldn't want to rock the boat too much!) effecting anyones vote? Seems to me most folks views on The EU are already pretty firmly set and I can't see the undecideds being swayed by some politician or other telling them which way to vote, it's a pretty personal decision for most folk, IMO. The politicians are just a side show for the media to focus on. You're right, most views are entrenched, so the vote will swing on the few percentage of "undecideds". And that's where someone like Boris Johnson comes in...... Boris is well known, Boris is popular. Boris gets interviewed, Boris gets on the news. Now, I'm not a particular fan of Boris Johnson, but he brings a certain gravitas to the cause. Without him, the "Leave" campaign has a failed former Tory leader, a couple of ministers no-one ever heard of, Nigel Farage (definitely the Marmite politician) and George Galloway (the less said the better !). News crews were camped outside his house all day, such is the weight he carries. Apart from Cameron, he is the best known politician in the country. So, can his presence change minds ? Absolutely !! I'm not a particular fan of Boris, but I know he is more than a match for Cameron,and now the gloves are off, I reckon David had better watch out! I've allways thought of Galloway as a bigger buffoon than Johnson, but after seeing the vid of him in front of the yank select committee I think I need to think again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 22,844 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) scotland, wales or ni shouldnt be dragged out the eu on englands vote.. if it happens, then id welcome indyref2 ...so England shouldn't stay In on Scottish and Welsh vote either? Edited February 22, 2016 by DIDO.1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nothernlite 18,089 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Snp should be throw out of scotland idiots Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOPPER 1,809 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 if we pull out the whole corrupt lot will fall like a pack of cards and the sooner the better i say 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,838 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 if we pull out the whole corrupt lot will fall like a pack of cards and the sooner the better i say spot on topper, will this be the final nail in merkel so coffin and will she be laid to rest in under 24 hrs if it collapses, if the eu collapses merkel and her cronies will be seen as the root of the problem and also the grim reapers of modern messed up Europe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 scotland, wales or ni shouldnt be dragged out the eu on englands vote.. if it happens, then id welcome indyref2 It's Britain's vote. And you're part of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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