Well Well Well! I Wasn't Expecting That! .17 Hmr For Fox!!

[delswal 3,819]

 

Good stuff

Just remember that although it's conditioned for fox it's not a "fox" calibre. keep shot placement in mind and keep the distances down.

I've had less runners with the .22 lr !

If you've got a lot of foxes to shoot get a centre fire.

Also one point, yes, if a fox comes along while I'm Rabbiting with my .22lr I'll take the shot. But my FAC .22lt is not condition for fox, so if asked to do so I can't go looking for a fox. Where as the .17 hmr on my FAC says fox, so if asked to shoot a fox this would be my only available caliber .22lr not being an option.

 

If I am not mistaken, which I may well be, If fox are classed as vermin and pest why can you not purposely go look for a fox with a .22lr. For whatever reason it may be the safest calibre for the situation in hand.

[dixyhmr 62]

I can.

My .22 rimfire has had fox written next to it since I requested it.

It's all down to individual licensing departments and individual requirements.

Big can of worms but most forces now provide AOLQ which gives the cert holder the privelage of being able to use their own discretion and common sense when choosing if a particular quarry is suitable for the calibre in question in the situation .

 

Just a quick edit that some forces won't class fox as vermin and some will in reply to the above post .

[David Aiken 253]

 

 

Good stuff

Just remember that although it's conditioned for fox it's not a "fox" calibre. keep shot placement in mind and keep the distances down.

I've had less runners with the .22 lr !

If you've got a lot of foxes to shoot get a centre fire.

 

Also one point, yes, if a fox comes along while I'm Rabbiting with my .22lr I'll take the shot. But my FAC .22lt is not condition for fox, so if asked to do so I can't go looking for a fox. Where as the .17 hmr on my FAC says fox, so if asked to shoot a fox this would be my only available caliber .22lr not being an option.

If I am not mistaken, which I may well be, If fox are classed as vermin and pest why can you not purposely go look for a fox with a .22lr. For whatever reason it may be the safest calibre for the situation in hand.

 

In the UK a fox is listed as a pest species which may me culled, however it's not classified as vermin, fox comes under its own catagory which is fox. Therefore if you possess a firearm and wish to shoot foxes and vermin it will need two separate endorsments, one for fox and one for vermin.

[walshie 2,804]

Or any lawful quarry.

 

When I was with the Met Police, my 22lr was specifically conditioned for fox. My mate who also lived in the Met area was refused fox with his 22lr. Same force, different FEO.

[David.evans 5,323]

Strange that one walshie

You would think that the law , would apply equally across the country

Or it it a case of the FEO's interpretation of the law ?

Atb

[walshie 2,804]

Strange that one walshie

You would think that the law , would apply equally across the country

Or it it a case of the FEO's interpretation of the law ?

Atb

 

Unfortunately I think it is each FEOs interpretation. It shouldn't be and IMO my mate should have pursued the matter, but he's a man who "doesn't like to make a fuss". Unlike me.

[Deker 3,478]

Just one problem, the HO Firearms Guidance is only guidance.....

 

Also, you need to find someone willing to risk @ £10,000 to prove a point, and at what chances of success against guidance? The Force aren't bound by it. Most people would be delighted to get granted a CF in any event.

 

 

The Home Office is in effect the Head Office of the Police regions.

 

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for any region to win any case in contradiction of the Guidance of their Head Office, especially as it can be easily demonstrated by many who have rimfires conditioned for Fox and/or Any Other Lawful Quarry they work!

 

The Police regions simply don't have a case.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Deker

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

Good stuff

Just remember that although it's conditioned for fox it's not a "fox" calibre. keep shot placement in mind and keep the distances down.

I've had less runners with the .22 lr !

If you've got a lot of foxes to shoot get a centre fire.

Also one point, yes, if a fox comes along while I'm Rabbiting with my .22lr I'll take the shot. But my FAC .22lt is not condition for fox, so if asked to do so I can't go looking for a fox. Where as the .17 hmr on my FAC says fox, so if asked to shoot a fox this would be my only available caliber .22lr not being an option.

If I am not mistaken, which I may well be, If fox are classed as vermin and pest why can you not purposely go look for a fox with a .22lr. For whatever reason it may be the safest calibre for the situation in hand.

 

In the UK a fox is listed as a pest species which may me culled, however it's not classified as vermin, fox comes under its own catagory which is fox. Therefore if you possess a firearm and wish to shoot foxes and vermin it will need two separate endorsments, one for fox and one for vermin.

 

 

 

The latest Home Office Guide DOES list Fox as Vermin!

[David Aiken 253]

 

 

 

 

Good stuff

Just remember that although it's conditioned for fox it's not a "fox" calibre. keep shot placement in mind and keep the distances down.

I've had less runners with the .22 lr !

If you've got a lot of foxes to shoot get a centre fire.

 

Also one point, yes, if a fox comes along while I'm Rabbiting with my .22lr I'll take the shot. But my FAC .22lt is not condition for fox, so if asked to do so I can't go looking for a fox. Where as the .17 hmr on my FAC says fox, so if asked to shoot a fox this would be my only available caliber .22lr not being an option.

If I am not mistaken, which I may well be, If fox are classed as vermin and pest why can you not purposely go look for a fox with a .22lr. For whatever reason it may be the safest calibre for the situation in hand.

In the UK a fox is listed as a pest species which may me culled, however it's not classified as vermin, fox comes under its own catagory which is fox. Therefore if you possess a firearm and wish to shoot foxes and vermin it will need two separate endorsments, one for fox and one for vermin.

 

The latest Home Office Guide DOES list Fox as Vermin!

It may well and I agreed the fox is vermin, but it is not, and never has been categorised as such by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA).

[walshie 2,804]

I'm actually surprised certain forces are still being so pedantic over specifics. I thought AOLQ was meant to clarifiy the situation.

 

Here's the latest incarnation of what I can shoot with my 22lr. Brief and to the point.

 

 

 

[delswal 3,819]

 

 

 

Good stuff

Just remember that although it's conditioned for fox it's not a "fox" calibre. keep shot placement in mind and keep the distances down.

I've had less runners with the .22 lr !

If you've got a lot of foxes to shoot get a centre fire.

Also one point, yes, if a fox comes along while I'm Rabbiting with my .22lr I'll take the shot. But my FAC .22lt is not condition for fox, so if asked to do so I can't go looking for a fox. Where as the .17 hmr on my FAC says fox, so if asked to shoot a fox this would be my only available caliber .22lr not being an option.

If I am not mistaken, which I may well be, If fox are classed as vermin and pest why can you not purposely go look for a fox with a .22lr. For whatever reason it may be the safest calibre for the situation in hand.

 

In the UK a fox is listed as a pest species which may me culled, however it's not classified as vermin, fox comes under its own catagory which is fox. Therefore if you possess a firearm and wish to shoot foxes and vermin it will need two separate endorsments, one for fox and one for vermin.

 

Then shoot the fcuker with the 22lr, anybody asks tell them it was being a pest

[dixyhmr 62]

There's a few people on here that have had all the chew in the past, been through it all and got a selection of t shirts.

There are some new to shooting who read a lot on the Internet and know home office guidelines by heart.

If the licensing authorities / forces paid as much attention to them as some on the site then the world be a less complicated place.

Let people listen to who they choose. In my experience I tend to take heed from experienced shooters who know what they're talking about rather than quoting bull shit guidelines from a pdf sheet.:

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

 

 

Good stuff

Just remember that although it's conditioned for fox it's not a "fox" calibre. keep shot placement in mind and keep the distances down.

I've had less runners with the .22 lr !

If you've got a lot of foxes to shoot get a centre fire.

Also one point, yes, if a fox comes along while I'm Rabbiting with my .22lr I'll take the shot. But my FAC .22lt is not condition for fox, so if asked to do so I can't go looking for a fox. Where as the .17 hmr on my FAC says fox, so if asked to shoot a fox this would be my only available caliber .22lr not being an option.

If I am not mistaken, which I may well be, If fox are classed as vermin and pest why can you not purposely go look for a fox with a .22lr. For whatever reason it may be the safest calibre for the situation in hand.

In the UK a fox is listed as a pest species which may me culled, however it's not classified as vermin, fox comes under its own catagory which is fox. Therefore if you possess a firearm and wish to shoot foxes and vermin it will need two separate endorsments, one for fox and one for vermin.

 

The latest Home Office Guide DOES list Fox as Vermin!

It may well and I agreed the fox is vermin, but it is not, and never has been categorised as such by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA).

 

 

Just as well its the Home Office/Police who are responsible for issuing, and the conditions and guidance on your FAC, and not DEFRA then!

[Alsone 789]

 

The Home Office is in effect the Head Office of the Police regions.

 

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for any region to win any case in contradiction of the Guidance of their Head Office, especially as it can be easily demonstrated by many who have rimfires conditioned or Fox and or All Other Lawful Quarry they work!

 

The Police regions simply don't have a case.

 

 

Maybe you ought to take a Barrister's opinion, on the matter. The Law Commission did in 2015 in a report reviewing Firearms Licensing (although it does concentrate heavily on antique and converted firearms, but nevertheless touched on the weight given to Firearms Guidance):

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Firearms_and_the_Law_R-Fortson_090715.pdf

 

Section 4.20:

 

 

Home Office Guidance

 

4.20 “Guidance” has been published by the Executive, principally by the Home Office, the most recent of which is “Guide on Firearms Licensing Law” (2015).

Such guidance has not been without its critics, and it does not have the force of law.

It is therefore open to the Courts to accept or to reject that guidance.

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

The Home Office is in effect the Head Office of the Police regions.

 

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for any region to win any case in contradiction of the Guidance of their Head Office, especially as it can be easily demonstrated by many who have rimfires conditioned or Fox and or All Other Lawful Quarry they work!

 

The Police regions simply don't have a case.

 

 

Maybe you ought to take a Barrister's opinion, on the matter. The Law Commission did in 2015 in a report reviewing Firearms Licensing (although it does concentrate heavily on antique and converted firearms, but nevertheless touched on the weight given to Firearms Guidance):

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Firearms_and_the_Law_R-Fortson_090715.pdf

 

Section 4.20:

 

 

Home Office Guidance

 

4.20 “Guidance” has been published by the Executive, principally by the Home Office, the most recent of which is “Guide on Firearms Licensing Law” (2015).

Such guidance has not been without its critics, and it does not have the force of law.

It is therefore open to the Courts to accept or to reject that guidance.

 

 

Good grief Alsone, of course it doesn't have the force of Law, who said it did?

 

However, when given Guidance by their Head Office, which Police region do you think will ever win a case in contradiction of that Guidance? And maybe you should look at the facts and history of the specific situation rather than an opinion that does not deal with it.

 

As I have already said, there is a MASS of precedence to PROOVE rimfires are perfectly capable on Foxes, and many regions do accept them, no region would have any chance whatsoever of winning a case in these circumstances, and I struggle to see any region would even consider bringing a case with this weight of factual evidence against them, it is simply a non starter. That is nothing to do with anyones opinion, it is fact.

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Deker