Well Well Well! I Wasn't Expecting That! .17 Hmr For Fox!!

[darrendigger 19]

I dropped one a 98 yards with hmr stopped him in his stride , as long as you know your limits and the guns limits its a great foxing round .

[jamesS410 106]

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

[David Aiken 253]

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

As far as I know, if you come across a Fox (with your FEO's permission) you can shoot it. If say a farmer call you to look for and if found shoot fox, it has to specify this as a condition on your FAC, no matter what the caliber.

[Elliott 436]

 

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

As far as I know, if you come across a Fox (with your FEO's permission) you can shoot it. If say a farmer call you to look for and if found shoot fox, it has to specify this as a condition on your FAC, no matter what the caliber.

Are you sure on this David?

 

I specifically requested a less restrictive ticket due to having good reason. I recieved an Open Certificate back with AOLQ against all calibres from 22LR - 243

Edited February 7, 2016 by Elliott

[Deker 3,478]

 

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

As far as I know, if you come across a Fox (with your FEO's permission) you can shoot it. If say a farmer call you to look for and if found shoot fox, it has to specify this as a condition on your FAC, no matter what the caliber.

 

 

David, I'm confused here what you are saying, if you have the condition AOLQ you are perfectly entitled to legally shoot the fox, you do not need your FEO permission and you do not need Fox specifically listed on your FAC.

 

Any Other Lawful Quarry means exactly what it says.

 

[Deker 3,478]

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

 

Any Other Lawful Quarry means exactly what it says

 

Which part of ANY Other Lawful Quarry says except fox?

 

Of course you can shoot fox on AOLQ.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Deker

[walshie 2,804]

 

 

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

As far as I know, if you come across a Fox (with your FEO's permission) you can shoot it. If say a farmer call you to look for and if found shoot fox, it has to specify this as a condition on your FAC, no matter what the caliber.

 

 

David, I'm confused here what you are saying, if you have the condition AOLQ you are perfectly entitled to legally shoot the fox, you do not need your FEO permission and you do not need Fox specifically listed on your FAC.

 

Any Other Lawful Quarry means exactly what it says.

 

 

 

What he said. There wouldn't be any point in AOLQ if it was limited. It would then be SOME other lawful quarry.

 

Once you have your FAC, the conditions are there in black and white. None of them are subject to the FEO's permission.

[CharlieT 32]

 

 

 

Maybe you ought to take a Barrister's opinion, on the matter. The Law Commission did in 2015 in a report reviewing Firearms Licensing (although it does concentrate heavily on antique and converted firearms, but nevertheless touched on the weight given to Firearms Guidance):

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Firearms_and_the_Law_R-Fortson_090715.pdf

 

Section 4.20:

 

 

 

You will of course have noted that the report is the view of the writer and not that of the Law Commission itself.

 

In the context of this thread it means nothing.

[Alsone 789]

 

 

 

 

Maybe you ought to take a Barrister's opinion, on the matter. The Law Commission did in 2015 in a report reviewing Firearms Licensing (although it does concentrate heavily on antique and converted firearms, but nevertheless touched on the weight given to Firearms Guidance):

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Firearms_and_the_Law_R-Fortson_090715.pdf

 

Section 4.20:

 

 

 

You will of course have noted that the report is the view of the writer and not that of the Law Commission itself.

 

In the context of this thread it means nothing.

 

 

I'm trying to stop this from descending into another argument which is why I haven't replied up until now. The Law Commission commissioned the report from a leading barrister who is an expert in Firearms Law, presumably because non of the people within the Law Commission itself had the necessary Firearms Knowledge.

[walshie 2,804]

I'm sure that report is very interesting, but it looks to me very much like a report just for the sake of writing one. "Are telescopic sights considered firearms?"

[CharlieT 32]

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you ought to take a Barrister's opinion, on the matter. The Law Commission did in 2015 in a report reviewing Firearms Licensing (although it does concentrate heavily on antique and converted firearms, but nevertheless touched on the weight given to Firearms Guidance):

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Firearms_and_the_Law_R-Fortson_090715.pdf

 

Section 4.20:

 

 

 

You will of course have noted that the report is the view of the writer and not that of the Law Commission itself.

 

In the context of this thread it means nothing.

 

 

I'm trying to stop this from descending into another argument which is why I haven't replied up until now. The Law Commission commissioned the report from a leading barrister who is an expert in Firearms Law, presumably because non of the people within the Law Commission itself had the necessary Firearms Knowledge.

 

 

You will however agree though that the report was complied in answer to the questions addressed in the scoping paper which looked at the effectiveness of the Firearms Act as far as the acquisition and possession of firearms is concerned. Specifically the key terms lethality, component parts, antique firearms, deactivation and imitation firearms.

 

The paper had nothing to do with firearms certificate conditions or quarry species and all to do with ammending the Firearms Act to tidy up loose ends.

[David Aiken 253]

 

 

 

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

As far as I know, if you come across a Fox (with your FEO's permission) you can shoot it. If say a farmer call you to look for and if found shoot fox, it has to specify this as a condition on your FAC, no matter what the caliber.

 

 

David, I'm confused here what you are saying, if you have the condition AOLQ you are perfectly entitled to legally shoot the fox, you do not need your FEO permission and you do not need Fox specifically listed on your FAC.

 

Any Other Lawful Quarry means exactly what it says.

 

 

 

What he said. There wouldn't be any point in AOLQ if it was limited. It would then be SOME other lawful quarry.

 

Once you have your FAC, the conditions are there in black and white. None of them are subject to the FEO's permission.

 

My FAC Air says Vermin And Any Other Lawful Quarry. So, FAC air from 12.1ft lbs upwards on an open ticket will be used on what? Is there a FAC air power level specifically for Fox? Not as far as I know. I know my FAC Air is not lawful for use on fox. My FEO said, at the time of obtaining my FAC that even when on an open FAC .22lr was not to be used to specifically hunt Fox, if you come across one at say 30 yards .22lr can be used, but you cannot go `looking` for fox with a .22lr as my FAC is not conditioned for fox, not in Kent anyway. So, I know my .22lr IS NOT lawful for fox as in the wording on my FAC, but can be used in certain circumstances.

 

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

 

Untill I started reading this thread I was pretty certain as to what I could and couldn't shoot. I have a .22 & 17hmr both conditioned for AOLQ which I assumed included fox but now I'm doubting myself! Can I or can't I ?

As far as I know, if you come across a Fox (with your FEO's permission) you can shoot it. If say a farmer call you to look for and if found shoot fox, it has to specify this as a condition on your FAC, no matter what the caliber.

 

 

David, I'm confused here what you are saying, if you have the condition AOLQ you are perfectly entitled to legally shoot the fox, you do not need your FEO permission and you do not need Fox specifically listed on your FAC.

 

Any Other Lawful Quarry means exactly what it says.

 

 

 

What he said. There wouldn't be any point in AOLQ if it was limited. It would then be SOME other lawful quarry.

 

Once you have your FAC, the conditions are there in black and white. None of them are subject to the FEO's permission.

 

My FAC Air says Vermin And Any Other Lawful Quarry. So, FAC air from 12.1ft lbs upwards on an open ticket will be used on what? Is there a FAC air power level specifically for Fox? Not as far as I know. I know my FAC Air is not lawful for use on fox. My FEO said, at the time of obtaining my FAC that even when on an open FAC .22lr was not to be used to specifically hunt Fox, if you come across one at say 30 yards .22lr can be used, but you cannot go `looking` for fox with a .22lr as my FAC is not conditioned for fox, not in Kent anyway. So, I know my .22lr IS NOT lawful for fox as in the wording on my FAC, but can be used in certain circumstances.

 

 

 

Crumbs, you have a lot there, lets try and work through it.

 

And lets start by saying your FEO doesn't know what he is talking about, he can tell you the world is Flat, and Elvis is running a Chip Shop on the Moon, it doesn't mean jack. The LAW and what is written on your FAC is what counts, not what comes out of his mouth.

 

First off, your FAC Air on an Open FAC with AOLQ CAN be used for fox Legally. The conditions of your FAC say so. Why on earth are you saying I know my FAC Air is not lawful for use on fox? There are no legal power/calibre/etc conditions for shooting fox. Any shot is down to YOU, your FAC is conditioned appropriately, after that it is down to you to decide if the shot is appropriate. A FAC air may well be up to the job of dispatching a trapped fox, or just possibly one very close. However, just because your FAC lists AOLQ it doesn't mean you can start shooting fox with it in the next county (FAC or not), any and every time you consider pulling the trigger you have to consider a mass of things, like can I kill it cleanly or am I taking a chance on wounding it.

 

If your .22LR conditions list VERMIN, or AOLQ you CAN shoot fox with it. You can't say I know my .22lr IS NOT lawful for fox as in the wording on my FAC, but can be used in certain circumstances. It is either Lawful or it isn't! The latest Home Office Guide lists fox as vermin, and it is obviously covered in AOLQ.

 

My FEO said, at the time of obtaining my FAC that even when on an open FAC .22lr was not to be used to specifically hunt Fox ...... WHY NOT? I am often in peoples back gardens, shooting them in barns, ambushing them near the chickens, etc etc and rimfires are commonly my first choice, because they are the best thing to use in the situations I select them!

 

Edit

Kent can add conditions to your FAC (which you can question) and you can be in breach of those conditions, but Kent do not make the Law. The Law on shooting fox is the same throughout England and Wales, Kent have nothing to do with that and have no power to make regional laws, but the conditions you seem to have from Kent give you the opportunity to shoot fox anyway!

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Deker

[Tornado1979 145]

I'm in South Yorkshire and have AOLQ ?

[ianm 2,594]

I dropped one a 98 yards with hmr stopped him in his stride , as long as you know your limits and the guns limits its a great foxing round .

 

 

 

Just for balance, i saw a 3/4 grown cub shot in the centre of the bib at 100yds and run. On the same night a full grown fox was shot between the eyes at 70 yds and the bullet richocheted off. The fox was semi stunned but came too fairly quckly and ran off. Although in certain cicumstances you will kill fox with an hmr i personally won't use one i would wait till had something else in my hands. However it's not a problem i now have as i binned the hmr and bought a .17 hornet instead.