English Bull And Their Crosses Thread.

[p3d 879]

Out of interest lads was the miniature EBT ever used in anyway. With the obvious size if they were anygood then they would be more suited to being put into earthdog bloodlines. Just a query . Don't know much about EBT so no slaging off lol!

 

Redquill,

 

A Miniature EBT bitch was used in one kennel of white dogs in Cork 4 generations back (roughly 8 years ago).

Some of the dogs from that line are working very well today. They would not get kennel space if they did not.

 

The following is just my own experience of this outcross, other people will have their view I am sure.

 

The physical attributes are easily spotted, domed head, brindle markings, ear set, large boned, even after all this time.

The influence on the size varies from medium 18 lb. to large 24 lb. I have not seen any small dogs but I have not seen all of them!

I have always thought that any hunt terrierman would never make this choice of outcross, they would not be versatile enough because of their size.

 

The EBT contribution to the terriers working attributes are not so easy to separate from the terrier influence IMO.

The terriers I have seen working are calm and sensible in kennel, easy to tie out at a dig.

Start easily enough and when they switch on.........you don't want to be between them and what they hunt.

 

The EBT cross does not seem to bring the "Red Haze" that you would expect from Bull blood.

Some dogs (not all) gain large heads without the "lock" you would expect to come with it.

 

They are bayers / mixers and when they click they stay the course.

Does the size help?...... IMHO I think size is overrated in a terrier.

One of the best dogs from this line is a tidy bitch (Brindle markings), I have never seen anything pass her in the last 3 seasons.

Her full brother (white with tan head markings) has an excellent nose and has pulled off some excellent digs.

 

A good outcross needs to be made to keep any strain alive.

Its up to the owner of the strain to make a choice that he has to live with.

[pablo esc 1,598]

What's the breeding way with these men and dogs, did the first cross work well,it may be good as you say, just seems though four generations in eight years don't all makes sense.

[p3d 879]

What's the breeding way with these men and dogs, did the first cross work well,it may be good as you say, just seems though four generations in eight years don't all makes sense.

The fourth generation is in my yard, 8 months old.

[keepdiggin 9,561]

get some of those gull terrs imported

[redquil 219]

Thanks for your knowledge lads I have no experience at all regarding EBTs but find this a real good thread. Once again thanks and keep them coming. atb.

[pablo esc 1,598]

 

What's the breeding way with these men and dogs, did the first cross work well,it may be good as you say, just seems though four generations in eight years don't all makes sense.

 

The fourth generation is in my yard, 8 months old.

any chance of a picture,

[p3d 879]

 

 

What's the breeding way with these men and dogs, did the first cross work well,it may be good as you say, just seems though four generations in eight years don't all makes sense.

The fourth generation is in my yard, 8 months old.

any chance of a picture,

 

 

4 months old

[pablo esc 1,598]

I was down there one time eight years ago and met some guy's who had them, said over twenty five years and his mate had a couple, he got the service of my ten months old dog, promised me a pup back, I got nothing or heard of them a few months later, I give him a Russell cross too. YHe was saying it was about giving dogs and against selling them

[pablo esc 1,598]

Smart dog, doesnt look too big, atb with it, looks very Russell

[p3d 879]

.

[stop.end 4,079]

 

 

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Edited January 15, 2016 by stop.end

[p3d 879]

Any pics of the older dogs

Not mine to put up, these men keep to themselves.

[stop.end 4,079]

sorry I don't have any pics.... but sort of same stamp of bitch Bryan posted the pic of on a little leggier and hairier.....

[Lenmcharristar 9,792]

I see nothing wrong with using a working ebt over a working earth dog, but I reckon a miniature might be better for the 1st cross to keep size down, they could make a handy dog, but I don't believe that non work these days there's bound to be a few about, that thunder rock kennel breeds some decent looking as in healthier fitter type, surely there's a few of them bound to be decent

[Lenmcharristar 9,792]

 

 

 

 

In your opinion Sounder has the EBT ever improved any of the breeds his blood was added too ?

 

Maybe not breeds, but it must have added something to strains for guys to have persisted with those lines and strains that had that blood? Rather than going back to "pure" terrier?

You'll have to ask some hard questions the next time you're down on the river.

 

Myself and A were talking with a guy who offered his pay cheque for a 1/4 EBT cross bitch, way back when. Asked if she was the best bitch he'd seen? No, he said she had some knacks about her , but he knew she'd produce.

He never bought her, but she produced a lot of bitches (and dogs) that again produced.

 

I've never heard any of the guys that put it in say they put it in for gameness. They wanted sounders.

Next time I'm on the river I'll wear shin pads and a jockstrap, ,but Bryan you answered my arguement a little by saying They wanted sounders.

My whole arguement about the addition of EBT blood is that I would hate to see anyone stupid enough to use it nowadays.

FACT, the EBT was bred initially as a show dog.

FACT, amongst bulldog fanciers he's regarded as a cur.

A hard mouthed cur now and again but a cur non the less.

The EBT has been used as fresh blood in many types or breeds but IMO the breeders could have put a bit more thought into what outcross to use and if the resulting progeny went on to good things then IMO it was the non EBT blood that was making the breeding a result.

Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about,

The best lamping lurcher I've ever seen I was also lucky enough to own and she was 1/8 EBT, 3/8 Staff 1/2 Greyhound.

IMO the EBT had nothing to do with the success of that bitch.

I've also seen several terriers with EBT blood in them. IMO it was the other blood that carried them, not that they were that good anyways.

And I have probably seen some of the only EBT blooded strongdogs that had success in the last 20 years (with the exception of the good one in the South East a few year back who got found out eventually) so I do know what the EBT can bring to the table.

Oh, and I've had a Diddycoy wheaten which after several years after he was used had a putty nose from the Red Hand Of Ulster.

So IMO anyone that would even consider using those ugly out of proportioned white show dogs in this day and age to a line of working dog of any description needs a good hard kick between their legs.

In fact, I'll do it.

so do you think the guy who bred the red hand over the wheaten bitch was wrong?

I'm not actually too sure who made that first breeding but it was Tony Lee who had the Diddy Coy prefix. Tony was a brilliant breeder of dogs but that doesn't mean the Diddy Coys were the best and he bred towards the wheaten side of things after that. There was as good if not better pure wheatens out there.

but do you think it was wrong to use an ebt over the wheaten? How did the pups turn out? Was there any lacking in them?