English Bull And Their Crosses Thread.

[General lee 979]

Northern Ireland , Ireland splitting hairs really it's still a small island no offence and it was just a game nothing wrong with it I think it was a good idea and should still be around now and it was just a thought as I know some Irishmen are quite against anything with England in the title

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

In your opinion Sounder has the EBT ever improved any of the breeds his blood was added too ?

 

Maybe not breeds, but it must have added something to strains for guys to have persisted with those lines and strains that had that blood? Rather than going back to "pure" terrier?

You'll have to ask some hard questions the next time you're down on the river.

 

Myself and A were talking with a guy who offered his pay cheque for a 1/4 EBT cross bitch, way back when. Asked if she was the best bitch he'd seen? No, he said she had some knacks about her , but he knew she'd produce.

He never bought her, but she produced a lot of bitches (and dogs) that again produced.

 

I've never heard any of the guys that put it in say they put it in for gameness. They wanted sounders.

 

Next time I'm on the river I'll wear shin pads and a jockstrap, ,but Bryan you answered my arguement a little by saying They wanted sounders.

My whole arguement about the addition of EBT blood is that I would hate to see anyone stupid enough to use it nowadays.

FACT, the EBT was bred initially as a show dog.

FACT, amongst bulldog fanciers he's regarded as a cur.

A hard mouthed cur now and again but a cur non the less.

The EBT has been used as fresh blood in many types or breeds but IMO the breeders could have put a bit more thought into what outcross to use and if the resulting progeny went on to good things then IMO it was the non EBT blood that was making the breeding a result.

Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about,

The best lamping lurcher I've ever seen I was also lucky enough to own and she was 1/8 EBT, 3/8 Staff 1/2 Greyhound.

IMO the EBT had nothing to do with the success of that bitch.

I've also seen several terriers with EBT blood in them. IMO it was the other blood that carried them, not that they were that good anyways.

And I have probably seen some of the only EBT blooded strongdogs that had success in the last 20 years (with the exception of the good one in the South East a few year back who got found out eventually) so I do know what the EBT can bring to the table.

Oh, and I've had a Diddycoy wheaten which after several years after he was used had a putty nose from the Red Hand Of Ulster.

So IMO anyone that would even consider using those ugly out of proportioned white show dogs in this day and age to a line of working dog of any description needs a good hard kick between their legs.

In fact, I'll do it.

Edited January 14, 2016 by neil cooney

[redquil 219]

Out of interest lads was the miniature EBT ever used in anyway. With the obvious size if they were anygood then they would be more suited to being put into earthdog bloodlines. Just a query . Don't know much about EBT so no slaging off lol!

[rob284 1,682]

The only benefit is see in bull blood is size and substance. I think its a big positive especially when a terrier is under pressure from its quarry. Id have to disagree about the ebt not bringing anything to the table because it must have brought size to the terriers. You dont want a bull, you want a bigger stronger terrier that acts and works like a terrier.

[Lenmcharristar 9,792]

 

 

In your opinion Sounder has the EBT ever improved any of the breeds his blood was added too ?

 

Maybe not breeds, but it must have added something to strains for guys to have persisted with those lines and strains that had that blood? Rather than going back to "pure" terrier?

You'll have to ask some hard questions the next time you're down on the river.

 

Myself and A were talking with a guy who offered his pay cheque for a 1/4 EBT cross bitch, way back when. Asked if she was the best bitch he'd seen? No, he said she had some knacks about her , but he knew she'd produce.

He never bought her, but she produced a lot of bitches (and dogs) that again produced.

 

I've never heard any of the guys that put it in say they put it in for gameness. They wanted sounders.

 

Next time I'm on the river I'll wear shin pads and a jockstrap, ,but Bryan you answered my arguement a little by saying They wanted sounders.

My whole arguement about the addition of EBT blood is that I would hate to see anyone stupid enough to use it nowadays.

FACT, the EBT was bred initially as a show dog.

FACT, amongst bulldog fanciers he's regarded as a cur.

A hard mouthed cur now and again but a cur non the less.

The EBT has been used as fresh blood in many types or breeds but IMO the breeders could have put a bit more thought into what outcross to use and if the resulting progeny went on to good things then IMO it was the non EBT blood that was making the breeding a result.

Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about,

The best lamping lurcher I've ever seen I was also lucky enough to own and she was 1/8 EBT, 3/8 Staff 1/2 Greyhound.

IMO the EBT had nothing to do with the success of that bitch.

I've also seen several terriers with EBT blood in them. IMO it was the other blood that carried them, not that they were that good anyways.

And I have probably seen some of the only EBT blooded strongdogs that had success in the last 20 years (with the exception of the good one in the South East a few year back who got found out eventually) so I do know what the EBT can bring to the table.

Oh, and I've had a Diddycoy wheaten which after several years after he was used had a putty nose from the Red Hand Of Ulster.

So IMO anyone that would even consider using those ugly out of proportioned white show dogs in this day and age to a line of working dog of any description needs a good hard kick between their legs.

In fact, I'll do it.

 

so do you think the guy who bred the red hand over the wheaten bitch was wrong?

[Bosun11 537]

Neil, whilst i agree with you totally on what an EBT really is.

What always strikes me is that when it is added into both terriers (of different types) or lurchers to produce working dogs, the progeny, we either know or hear about, seems to range from pretty decent to bloody good..! Now though i hate to say it, there must be something in that for that to work out...???

And yer, like i said in my previous post, though i believe that, i'd never advicate the use of one in any line when, on paper at least, there are far better outcrosses out there!

[fat man 4,741]

 

 

In your opinion Sounder has the EBT ever improved any of the breeds his blood was added too ?

 

Maybe not breeds, but it must have added something to strains for guys to have persisted with those lines and strains that had that blood? Rather than going back to "pure" terrier?

You'll have to ask some hard questions the next time you're down on the river.

 

Myself and A were talking with a guy who offered his pay cheque for a 1/4 EBT cross bitch, way back when. Asked if she was the best bitch he'd seen? No, he said she had some knacks about her , but he knew she'd produce.

He never bought her, but she produced a lot of bitches (and dogs) that again produced.

 

I've never heard any of the guys that put it in say they put it in for gameness. They wanted sounders.

 

Next time I'm on the river I'll wear shin pads and a jockstrap, ,but Bryan you answered my arguement a little by saying They wanted sounders.

My whole arguement about the addition of EBT blood is that I would hate to see anyone stupid enough to use it nowadays.

FACT, the EBT was bred initially as a show dog.

FACT, amongst bulldog fanciers he's regarded as a cur.

A hard mouthed cur now and again but a cur non the less.

The EBT has been used as fresh blood in many types or breeds but IMO the breeders could have put a bit more thought into what outcross to use and if the resulting progeny went on to good things then IMO it was the non EBT blood that was making the breeding a result.

Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about,

The best lamping lurcher I've ever seen I was also lucky enough to own and she was 1/8 EBT, 3/8 Staff 1/2 Greyhound.

IMO the EBT had nothing to do with the success of that bitch.

I've also seen several terriers with EBT blood in them. IMO it was the other blood that carried them, not that they were that good anyways.

And I have probably seen some of the only EBT blooded strongdogs that had success in the last 20 years (with the exception of the good one in the South East a few year back who got found out eventually) so I do know what the EBT can bring to the table.

Oh, and I've had a Diddycoy wheaten which after several years after he was used had a putty nose from the Red Hand Of Ulster.

So IMO anyone that would even consider using those ugly out of proportioned white show dogs in this day and age to a line of working dog of any description needs a good hard kick between their legs.

In fact, I'll do it.

 

That the wheaten you got from JK.

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

 

 

In your opinion Sounder has the EBT ever improved any of the breeds his blood was added too ?

 

Maybe not breeds, but it must have added something to strains for guys to have persisted with those lines and strains that had that blood? Rather than going back to "pure" terrier?

You'll have to ask some hard questions the next time you're down on the river.

 

Myself and A were talking with a guy who offered his pay cheque for a 1/4 EBT cross bitch, way back when. Asked if she was the best bitch he'd seen? No, he said she had some knacks about her , but he knew she'd produce.

He never bought her, but she produced a lot of bitches (and dogs) that again produced.

 

I've never heard any of the guys that put it in say they put it in for gameness. They wanted sounders.

 

Next time I'm on the river I'll wear shin pads and a jockstrap, ,but Bryan you answered my arguement a little by saying They wanted sounders.

My whole arguement about the addition of EBT blood is that I would hate to see anyone stupid enough to use it nowadays.

FACT, the EBT was bred initially as a show dog.

FACT, amongst bulldog fanciers he's regarded as a cur.

A hard mouthed cur now and again but a cur non the less.

The EBT has been used as fresh blood in many types or breeds but IMO the breeders could have put a bit more thought into what outcross to use and if the resulting progeny went on to good things then IMO it was the non EBT blood that was making the breeding a result.

Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about,

The best lamping lurcher I've ever seen I was also lucky enough to own and she was 1/8 EBT, 3/8 Staff 1/2 Greyhound.

IMO the EBT had nothing to do with the success of that bitch.

I've also seen several terriers with EBT blood in them. IMO it was the other blood that carried them, not that they were that good anyways.

And I have probably seen some of the only EBT blooded strongdogs that had success in the last 20 years (with the exception of the good one in the South East a few year back who got found out eventually) so I do know what the EBT can bring to the table.

Oh, and I've had a Diddycoy wheaten which after several years after he was used had a putty nose from the Red Hand Of Ulster.

So IMO anyone that would even consider using those ugly out of proportioned white show dogs in this day and age to a line of working dog of any description needs a good hard kick between their legs.

In fact, I'll do it.

 

so do you think the guy who bred the red hand over the wheaten bitch was wrong?

 

I'm not actually too sure who made that first breeding but it was Tony Lee who had the Diddy Coy prefix. Tony was a brilliant breeder of dogs but that doesn't mean the Diddy Coys were the best and he bred towards the wheaten side of things after that. There was as good if not better pure wheatens out there.

[neil cooney 10,416]

Neil, whilst i agree with you totally on what an EBT really is.

What always strikes me is that when it is added into both terriers (of different types) or lurchers to produce working dogs, the progeny, we either know or hear about, seems to range from pretty decent to bloody good..! Now though i hate to say it, there must be something in that for that to work out...???

And yer, like i said in my previous post, though i believe that, i'd never advicate the use of one in any line when, on paper at least, there are far better outcrosses out there!

Has EBT been put into any line of working terrier, strongdog or running dog in the last 20 years and left it's mark ?

Genuine question, but I doubt it but I could be wrong !

BUT, if you go back to the 60s and 70s and even the early 80s there was EBT blood used with some success.

BUT, back then there was also Irish, Kerry Blue and Glen of Imall blood used with some success.

Back then it was an Irish thing to have rough and ready curs that were Jack of all trades, but masters of none and Staffs, Wheatens, Kerries and EBT's all fell into that description. All anybody needed was a rough cur.

But the trials came along and now there was a standard. Forget about the trials that the IKC ran, they were all about rosettes. It was when the trials fell into the true dogmans hands that the Wheaten and the Staff rose to the top with the odd Glen and Bull Terrier too.

BUT, after the trials things got a lot more serious and that's when the cream rose to the top and the likes of the EBT got left behind.

So IMO to say that to use an English Bull Terrier to enhance a line of workers you'd get the same result by using an Irish terrier or a Kerry Blue and let's face it, it's not something a serious terrierman would even contemplate.

 

The last time I spoke to anyone who was serious about English Bull Terriers was 12 or 13 years ago down in Wexford. He was a nice old man who had held onto them since the trials even though he didn't work them in any way.

I asked him what had happened his hand. He had tried to look at a litter of new born pups but the bitch objected and bit his thumb off.

Like I say, hard mouthed curs, LOL.

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

 

 

In your opinion Sounder has the EBT ever improved any of the breeds his blood was added too ?

 

Maybe not breeds, but it must have added something to strains for guys to have persisted with those lines and strains that had that blood? Rather than going back to "pure" terrier?

You'll have to ask some hard questions the next time you're down on the river.

 

Myself and A were talking with a guy who offered his pay cheque for a 1/4 EBT cross bitch, way back when. Asked if she was the best bitch he'd seen? No, he said she had some knacks about her , but he knew she'd produce.

He never bought her, but she produced a lot of bitches (and dogs) that again produced.

 

I've never heard any of the guys that put it in say they put it in for gameness. They wanted sounders.

 

Next time I'm on the river I'll wear shin pads and a jockstrap, ,but Bryan you answered my arguement a little by saying They wanted sounders.

My whole arguement about the addition of EBT blood is that I would hate to see anyone stupid enough to use it nowadays.

FACT, the EBT was bred initially as a show dog.

FACT, amongst bulldog fanciers he's regarded as a cur.

A hard mouthed cur now and again but a cur non the less.

The EBT has been used as fresh blood in many types or breeds but IMO the breeders could have put a bit more thought into what outcross to use and if the resulting progeny went on to good things then IMO it was the non EBT blood that was making the breeding a result.

Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about,

The best lamping lurcher I've ever seen I was also lucky enough to own and she was 1/8 EBT, 3/8 Staff 1/2 Greyhound.

IMO the EBT had nothing to do with the success of that bitch.

I've also seen several terriers with EBT blood in them. IMO it was the other blood that carried them, not that they were that good anyways.

And I have probably seen some of the only EBT blooded strongdogs that had success in the last 20 years (with the exception of the good one in the South East a few year back who got found out eventually) so I do know what the EBT can bring to the table.

Oh, and I've had a Diddycoy wheaten which after several years after he was used had a putty nose from the Red Hand Of Ulster.

So IMO anyone that would even consider using those ugly out of proportioned white show dogs in this day and age to a line of working dog of any description needs a good hard kick between their legs.

In fact, I'll do it.

 

That the wheaten you got from JK.

 

That's her.

She was a grand bitch that I worked regularly and she could show them who was boss but she went in one day and stopped for a minute or two to think about things and I retired her early.

 

I was actually looking through some old pedigrees earlier and found the pedigree for Johnny's old bitch Sandy.

She was whelped in '83.

Where are the years going ?

Edited January 15, 2016 by neil cooney

[sounder79 80]

Neil , i think your insulting cork doggy men by saying the english bull didnt add anything,but thats your opinon.

And as for being only sounders , Whats wrong with that?

[neil cooney 10,416]

Not insulting anyone or their dogs.

How long has it been since there was new EBT blood put into that family of terrier Sounder ?

 

And there's nothing wrong with a terrier just being a sounder, nothing whatsoever.

Are all those Cork white dogs sounders ?

And do they all make the grade ?

[forest of dean redneck 11,608]

Out of interest lads was the miniature EBT ever used in anyway. With the obvious size if they were anygood then they would be more suited to being put into earthdog bloodlines. Just a query . Don't know much about EBT so no slaging off lol!

There was American fella used to post on here,he had a miniature ebt x? Think he used it on coons.

[steve66 3,465]

page 9 in the old russel threads interesting, Ginny spinners dog looks a useful tool

[pablo esc 1,598]

Heard some, "digging lad", well two different one's in my lifetime saying that the were seeking or getting a miniter English bull bitches for their breeding, cross with there terriers to create good digging dogs, the two individuals who wouldn't have knew each other, wouldn't have got far with it, both impatient and youngish and not very good nice when it comes to some things mostly. I think the chance of getting a pup first time round and even so on is not much chance of it clicking, going to ground properly. The think because some one or other done it or heard of it that it will happen. I saw a lake land English bull once a lad bought as a pup, it was a great solid looking bitch, I don't know if it went to ground but know it got action