Red Dot For Ranging?

[toxo 160]

I do most of my shooting at night and like most people I struggle with distances. I'm quite liking the idea of a red dot laser set to your zero distance which at least will tell you if the target is nearer or farther than your zero. I know nothing about red dots so can anyone tell me what to look for? Want the smallest unit that will hold zero out to maybe 100yds.

 

Happy Chrimbo everyone!

 

Paul

[Coypu Hunter 486]

There's a big difference between a red-dot sight and a laser.

 

You can zero a laser, and they're handy if, say, you want to zero an air rifle at 10 yards for ratting while keeping your scope zeroed at 33 yards for other quarry. You wouldn't be able to see the small dot of the laser at 100 yards.

 

You can also zero a red-dot sight, obviously, and they're good for short-range shooting or long-range shooting at larger targets (e.g. Taliban). The main problem is that the dot itself would obscure a lot of your target at 100 yards.

 

Since you're mainly hunting at night, it sounds like you need one of those NV scopes that acts as a rangefinder as well. Plenty of vids on YooToob showing how they work, and they're sophisticated bits of kit, but expensive.

[toxo 160]

Don't want to put it on the target. Could be two or three feet sideways from the crosshairs. The idea is to set the dot to your zero, then if i've got a bunny in my crosshairs and the dot is below the bunny I know the bunnie is further away than my zero. If dot is high then bunnie is closer. Not ever going to be spot on but every little helps

Got one of those expensive "S" shaped steel mounts that is adjustable every which way so just need something basic that I can see through the Archer at 80/100yds.

[Alsone 789]

????? Dot will always be spot on at every range as light travels in straight lines, so unlike a bullet, you don't get drop. You won't be able to tell the distance therefore.

 

Best buy a laser range finder. They're not too expensive when not built into the scope.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Alsone

[Metalman2 45]

First of all, you can see a good laser at 100yds, secondly you do get a difference with ranges providing the laser is mounted (ideally 7/8") above or below the level of the scope. If scope and laser are zeroed at the same distance higher mag setting makes it easier to see the dif

[slipper 116]

I remember terry le chem I think his name was in a air rifle mag about 20 years ago using a laser mounted on top of a scope as a rough rangefinder seemed to work for him

[Alsone 789]

First of all, you can see a good laser at 100yds, secondly you do get a difference with ranges providing the laser is mounted (ideally 7/8") above or below the level of the scope. If scope and laser are zeroed at the same distance higher mag setting makes it easier to see the dif

 

If you're mounting the laser above and seeing a difference then it can only be because the laser is pointing down to the zero point. The issue I see with that, is beyond the zero the amount the laser will drop is dictated by the angle of the mount and so it will be individual to your gun / mount.

 

You could work it out as it would be a constant, and once you've worked out the drop for various distances, you could then by estimating the drop by sight, estimate the range based on your calculations for drop vs distance, but it seems a very hard and inaccurate way of finding distance to my mind, not least of which because a gun mounted laser costs around £70 compared to only around £99 for a lower end laser range finder that ranges to 600yds with a claimed accuracy of +/- 1 metre. I wouldn't be surprised if you were 20 to 30 metres out by simple drop estimation at 150-200 metres simply because trying to estimate the exact amount of drop between crosshairs and laser at distance is going to be extremely difficult.

 

It just seems a no brainer to me for just £30 more, to buy a laser range finder whether that's a gun branded one or one made for golf.

[Metalman2 45]

Will the lower end rangefinder see the target in the dark ? Merely pointing out that a laser can be used as an aid on shorter distances and that it can be accurate to a few yds up to 70yds

 

 

IMO the laser is better mounted under the gun to afford more protection and still get a reasonable distance from the scope

 

yes, this was short range, and i use the PHOTON on the LR

[Alsone 789]

Don't see why it wouldn't be usable at night. A laser is a laser.

 

If it's capable of measuring to 600yds then that should be it's usable distance night or day. Laser light is less visible during the day as it gets washed out by other light so should actually be easier to detect at night. Even IR has to compete with IR from the sun in the day.

 

My understanding of how most laser range finders is they work by firing a short laser pulse at the target and then measure the time taken for it to be reflected back. I'm sure some others on here will have experience of using laser range finders so could give you a more accurate view on day / night use. But I can't see why in principle it wouldn't work at night and actually would expect it to work better subject to any readout issues.

 

EDIT: Just added this because just done a bit of reading of Golf vs Hunting range finders. Apparently many auto select the target using software (I've never personally used one and always thought you selected and lased the target yourself, how tech moves on!), however, the settings for Golf are different to those required for hunting so it looks like you would need a hunting specific range finder. However, you can get a Hawke Rangefinder 600 for £150 or less though. Still know where my money would go.

 

Just found a Nikon on offer here for the same money (£150): http://www.uttings.co.uk/p115618-nikon-aculon-al11-lrf-rangefinder-bka125fa/#.Vn-0E1LU2UY

Edited December 27, 2015 by Alsone

[David Aiken 253]

Never used a `red` but I do use a `green` laser for this purpose. I use an attachment to fit the laser to my scope which has up & down adjustment as on a scope. If I set it to my `zero` of 30 yards and the dot is smack on I know I`m at 30 yards. Its quick to tell if a Rabbit is out of range. I've only used it for my HW100s.

[toxo 160]

As was pointed out on another forum. This can't work cos if dot is fixed on crosshairs it will always be on crosshairs no matter where you point it as long as it's attached to the rifle.

I have a rangefinder. They do work in the dark but you can't read them in the dark.

[David Aiken 253]

As was pointed out on another forum. This can't work cos if dot is fixed on crosshairs it will always be on crosshairs no matter where you point it as long as it's attached to the rifle.

I have a rangefinder. They do work in the dark but you can't read them in the dark

 

Yes it can! I can't stay` fixed` If you zero both the `dot` and crosshairs at 30 yards and look through you scope and the `dot` is right on the crosshair the object hit by the laser is 30 yards. If you then aim at an object at 40 yards the `dot` is no longer on the crosshair. As said, I use this method as do a couple of friends, as the dot raises or lowers as it hits objects at differing distances, the `dot` changes height so can gauge if you need to aim low or high ;-)

[slipper 116]

So if the dot is low on a rabbits head for example you need to aim a little higher is that right?

[toxo 160]

Still not convinced that it will work but I'll certainly give it a try.
Here's an idea that will work. Can't remember where I posted it or when (not my original idea) but I stuck a laser pen thing on the side of my rangefinder in such a way that the dot was in the center of the rangefinder reticle (at any range) . Was a bit fiddly but I managed it. Don't ask me how it worked but it did. Whatever the distance that dot was in the middle of the reticle. Whilst looking through your night vision (Archer in my case) you held the rangefinder in your hand and aimed it at the target. When the dot is on target you press the distance button and read the result in the light of your night vision. Just dug out the pic. Never did try it in earnest.
http://www.unusual-gifts.pwp.blueyon...ngefinder1.JPG

[Alsone 789]

 

As was pointed out on another forum. This can't work cos if dot is fixed on crosshairs it will always be on crosshairs no matter where you point it as long as it's attached to the rifle.

I have a rangefinder. They do work in the dark but you can't read them in the dark

 

Yes it can! I can't stay` fixed` If you zero both the `dot` and crosshairs at 30 yards and look through you scope and the `dot` is right on the crosshair the object hit by the laser is 30 yards. If you then aim at an object at 40 yards the `dot` is no longer on the crosshair. As said, I use this method as do a couple of friends, as the dot raises or lowers as it hits objects at differing distances, the `dot` changes height so can gauge if you need to aim low or high ;-)

 

 

No it can't David. Light always travels in straight lines. If it's on the same plane as the cross hair it will always be on the cross hair at ANY distance.If it's falling below then it's because the laser is inclined down. The only way to bend light is via a prism or very very strong magnetic field. Other than that, it travels straight even for millions of miles. It's the fact the laser is inclined on it's mount that makes it fall above or below the cross hair.

 

This picture here gives you a very good example of just how straight light including laser travels:

 

 

 

 

So if the dot is low on a rabbits head for example you need to aim a little higher is that right?

 

Not necessarily. It gives you no info on the ballistic curve. The laser will be inclined so before the cross hair zero point it will always be above and after the zero point below (unless the laser is mounted on the underside of the gun in which case the situation is reversed!).

 

However, the lasers position in relation to the cross hair only helps you estimate the range. It bears no relation to what the bullet is doing. eg at certain ranges the laser could be below the cross hair but the bullet above (necessitating a hold under not over). That's why you would need to work the relationship between the drop of the laser below the cross hair and the distance, and then use ballistic tables or a calculator to relate that to the ballistic curve at that point.

 

All any distance tool will give you is the distance to the target. Beyond that, it's knowledge of the ballistics of you chosen ammo at a variety of ranges that makes an accurate shot possible. Snipers will carry a book of either tables, or a drop vs distances that they've worked out on the range. These days for the rest of us, there's an app for that!

 

BTW, on a separate safety point, any laser over 5mw will damage your eyesight faster than you can blink if it gets shone directly into you eyes, we're talking in thousands of a second here.

 

This is what it does to your retinas - this is a single spot:

 

 

This is what it does to your eyesight (picture of a white wall taken with a laser damaged camera - not by me, from the Laserist website):

 

 

 

Well assuming it doesn't hit the optic nerve in which case it's total blindness.

 

Not trying to be dramatic here, just warning people to be careful especially of high powered units.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Alsone