Another Plummer

[HGN 150]

Would you find a different colour pup in some litters like black and white

 

no - seen a litter for sale recently advertised as Plummers - they werent - someone else has a brown tan and white pup advertised - apparently its a Plummer - the rest of the litter were red and white

Edited December 21, 2015 by HGN

[Cargol 302]

Yes. You get tri coloured pups in some litters.

[HGN 150]

Then it seems from your reply there are many 2 headed liar's at the P.T.C.G.B.

 

Not me and I don't believe Gareth Mash or Scott would lie to me - I know them a long time now. You however are a pseudonym (or two)

 

I would ask that you don't pass my number on again as I have no interest in sending 8 week old puppies to Ireland

 

Fair enough - stop selling them on preloved - and breeding close to Jazz isn't going to help you or folk wanting to get clean healthy lines

 

 

HGN,we have not had much contact as late so can you tell me who has what job on the varied clubs,especially the P.T.C.G.B. then at least I will know who I am slating,WM (WirralMan)

 

We haven't but it is common knowledge really - I ll let you contact me at your convenience

 

 

Manners - sometimes they are easily carried and best shown

[fireman 10,975]

 

Could some of you give us reflection on the breed, I remember or am I mistaken plummer writing in the nineties in the cw, about breeding his own terrier, beagle for nose, Russell of some stock, etc,. Didn't know a plummer terrier existed before then.

 

The Breed... History

The Plummer Terrier created by Dr. David Brian Plummer was conceived through the mixture of Jack Russell terrier, Fell terrier, Bull terrier and Beagle blood. Aptly named after their creator - the Plummer terrier was realised in the 1960 s and has been bred true to type for over twenty years.

In the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s, Brian Plummer worked as a somewhat reluctant teacher of several schools throughout south Yorkshire and the Midlands. A self confessed rustic eccentric and seemingly frustrated academic, Brian's passion was hunting rats with what was then his motley pack of Russell type terriers. On settling in the Midlands, living in a run down cottage in the countryside surrounding Lichfield, he continued teaching and in his spare time hunted rats relentlessly as well as engaging his dogs to rabbit and earth quarry.

Brian Plummer continued his passion and soon was established as a leading author of books on hunting with lurchers and terriers. Well versed in the science of genetics, he strove to produce a unique strain of terrier using the aforementioned bloodlines with Jack Russell terriers from Sealy Cottage lines as his foundation. These terriers were worked hard and as the breed developed so too did Brian Plummers reputation as a breeder of hardy terriers that bred true to type.

During this frenetic period of Brian's life the Plummer terrier continued to flourish. The now legendary dogs of this time consisted of Vampire, who died in 1980 aged nine, this Plummer terrier was a veteran of the weekly rat hunts at the local battery hen farm. His brother Warlock, sister Beltane (who Brian regarded as the "matron" of his terrier team and indeed the prototype of the breed) and probably most famous Omega, bred by her sire Vampire to his own daughter Janey. Brian dedicated a whole book to the hunting abilities of Omega. All of these terriers showed the characteristic looks of what we now regard as Plummer terriers.

The Beagle introduced to Plummer’s lines in the 1960s was out of Catherine Sutton’s Rossut show-bred strain that originated from USA imports brought to the UK to tidy up British exhibits. It was owned by Philip Ainsley, a fellow teacher friend of Brian's.

Further outcrosses were introduced along the way. The addition of Fell terrier blood, Jaeger from Nigel Hinchcliffe's lines and Flint from Brian Nuttall's lines, both noted working lines and most likely descending from Cyril Breay's and Frank Buck’s stock, infused refinement of shape and to a certain extent contributed to fixing type, like that seen in Pagan, a black and tan terrier, acknowledged as one of the early pillars of the breed.

Further additions included a Jack Russell terrier known as Eric Forsyth's Pip, Alan Thomas's Hamish and Laddie from the Chiddingfold and Leconfield foxhound kennels. It must be noted that performance as an earth dog was and is an expected prerequisite of most if not all terrier breeds and Plummers are no exception to this rule. These three dogs were known to be full on earth workers.

In the early 1980s during one of the many TV documentaries (Rat hunting man and Lone furrow) about Brian Plummer and his terriers he said that one day he would like his terriers to be known as Plummer terriers and recognised by the Kennel Club. In 1985 he suffered a near fatal heart attack which resulted in the dispersal of his substantial pack of terriers to trusted friends.

He eventually moved to a remote croft in Caithness in Scotland and began to write full time. His terriers were ultimately spread far and wide but a few dedicated individuals ensured Brian's legacy continued. By the early 1990s most of the packs important gene pool was found and regrouped, albeit on a smaller scale. Work continued and other lines were sort widening the gene pool enough to be able to limit inbreeding.

At this point it has to be said that two distinct types began to develop, the smaller more snipey nosed form and the more bully stronger headed type. At this point Brian opted for the latter, and by the late nineties he decided that the breed needed a wider gene pool in order to reach its maximum potential and Bull Terrier blood of known ancestry was sought and outcrossed into the breed.

Brian Plummer sadly passed away in the September of 2002 after a long hard struggle with cancer. Needless to say, those working with him continued as planned and after time realised the success they and he desired. Today's Plummer Terrier is better than ever, many of the attributes laid out in the breed standard still intact, positively evolving and looking forward to the future.

There are two main clubs charged with the breed’s interests today – the Plummer Terrier Club of Great Britain (PTCGB) and the Plummer Terrier Association (PTA). Their contact details are available on their websites:www.plummerterrier.com and www.plummerterrierassociation.com and both clubs are on Facebook.

 

You forgot about the fox terrier mate,

[keith j 1,089]

 

Would that be that prick the horn blower by any chance HGN.If so the most dishonest full of shit man iv,e yet to meet,would like to say more but i'll save that for a rainy day.

 

Yes Keith the same chap

 

Ah thoughts so,people like him the breed could certainly do with out

[HGN 150]

You forgot about the fox terrier mate,

 

Tell me more

[fireman 10,975]

A fox terrier was used as well in the mix or so some peds i've seen said ,but no one but plummer really knew what he did breeding wise or added in,no matter what welsby or other claim to know as dbp was a lier and a shit stirrer ..

[lurchers 2,875]

Very well put hgn, I was told plummer was a clever man, and a school teacher in which some may I add would ring a different bell, and being nothing to do with hunting but, a school teacher, discipline or very clever. As for the breeding in to a Nuttal terrier, I read it once in his breeding program. Never heard Nuttal say he used anything or any claim

You would never here frank Buck say he used Ron hodgsons border dog in his breeding neither mate.these men will only tell you what you want to hear mate.i enjoyed reading this post and I've always liked the Plummer terrier but I like the little tight type not the big leggy things you see now.

Edited December 22, 2015 by lurchers

[MR PLUMMER 130]

A fox terrier was used as well in the mix or so some peds i've seen said ,but no one but plummer really knew what he did breeding wise or added in,no matter what welsby or other claim to know as dbp was a lier and a shit stirrer ..

I seen a stud dog used from Blackburn that was half yorkie/lakeland, seen the resulting litter,only 1 person he had to please back then and it was himself,there seems to be too much hero worshipping going on these days around DBP from the resulting clubs after his demise,for f*cks sake there even lads calling anything related to him Plummer lurchers, DBP took the truth to the grave,he always maintained his best all round terrier was Pagan and we all know how she was bred,WM

[MR PLUMMER 130]

HGN, I don't need advice on breeding or terrier work from a novice thats only been in the game 5 mins,who I sell my pups to and where is my concern,also the manner in which I advertise them is to ensure they are being spread around the country. There have been many that have come and gone in the Plummer world like you and I'm sure there will be more. You come across as educated and knowledgeable about the breed but it appears your also very gullible around all things Plummer,you need quality clean working stock if you are to get the Irish PTA off the ground and stop taking other peoples reject sh*t,breed to a programme and don't believe all your told by some, there have been plenty of ghost pups put on the end of litters to compensate for an unregistered adult that could not be registered,all the clubs have been guilty of this in the past and if it suits those in control a blind eye is turned,the proof of the pudding is in the progeny "you" produce "yourself",not on the back of others,put a few pics up of the decent litters you have bred and their work when adult and I may take you more serious, I know you have had some "bad luck" whilst attempting to breed in the past but "dogmen" will only judge success,remember if you "walk in sh*t you will get some on your boots"

there are many in the Plummer world you would be wise to avoid, WM

[mango 343]

 

A fox terrier was used as well in the mix or so some peds i've seen said ,but no one but plummer really knew what he did breeding wise or added in,no matter what welsby or other claim to know as dbp was a lier and a shit stirrer ..

 

I seen a stud dog used from Blackburn that was half yorkie/lakeland, seen the resulting litter,only 1 person he had to please back then and it was himself,there seems to be too much hero worshipping going on these days around DBP from the resulting clubs after his demise,for f*cks sake there even lads calling anything related to him Plummer lurchers, DBP took the truth to the grave,he always maintained his best all round terrier was Pagan and we all know how she was bred,WM

I know her sire was jaeger but can't remember what bitch she was out of.

[ponte 222]

The man himself + working Plummer

 

[stormyboy 1,352]

Pauls Syd isn't it ponte? Proper one he was.

[tinytiger 840]

and sire of no plummers

[stormyboy 1,352]

Shatter marked. Big no no. Ffs. Paul lost him before I had the chance to use him,as did Mango with good old Toby. Bad times.

Edited December 22, 2015 by stormyboy