Muhammad Ali

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those " giants " were 6 ft 5 or 6 fighting good fighters ................todays giants are far bigger and fighting far inferior fighters.

 

Yeah and a 6ft 6 "Giant" has just dominated the sport for a decade so I don't get your point, if you're good enough you're big enough IMO.

Yes but thats very close to " if your big enough your good enough " and thats dangerous for the sport......my point is that those giants of yesterday were rarely able to beat the best fighters out there......today they can dominate them,you think its because those giants today are better fighters i dont agree i think its simply because the level of fighters these days is so poor that the saying can now be changed to " a very average biggun will beat a good littlun "

That's something that can't be proved though, true I don't think the smaller fighters of today could carry the likes of Joe Louis, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfields jockstrap. I could imagine the Holyfield of 92 weighing 205lb clearing the division up now but who knows? The size difference could be too much but I doubt it, he did pretty well against 6"5', 235lb Riddick Bowe.

Again,you are talking about 6 ft 5 and 235 lb.......Tyson Fury is 6 ft 9 and 260 odd....more importantly he has an 85 inch reach !!.....i couldnt envisage Holyfield getting anywhere near him,and even if he did Fury would have the strength to wrap him up.......hence for me an all time great heavyweight that couldnt beat a very average heavyweight just because he,s not big enough is not a good position for the sport to be in.

I'd say being 6"5' and 235lb is big enough to be labeled a Super Heavyweight, funnily Fury only weighed 247lb against Wlad, hardly a massive difference there. Lennox Lewis had a 84 inch reach and Holyfield pushed him close in both bouts. Evander also fought someone much bigger than Fury in Valuev and was blatantly robbed, he was 46 years old as well.

So i ask you again.......do you think it right and proper that the greatest prize in professional sport should be so heavily influenced by physical size ?......me i think it go,s against the essence of what competetive sport is all about.....but where the line should be drawn size/weight wise im not too sure.

Maybe so but it's been that way since the start, it's just now the big guys on whole are more skilful than the big guys of years gone by. I think adding more weights would be negative on the sport tbh.

[Silversnake 1,099]

 

 

At the end of the day we can only speculate, but I think mike Tyson at his peak was better offensively and defensively than any other heavyweight in history and he definitely had a solid chin. That is not to say he had the best career because he did not improve with age and experience.

I will never understand this logic its like watching West Ham beat Preston North End 4 - 0 every week and then just presume they would do the same to Man Utd and Arsenal !.....Ali would have played with Tyson to the point where Tyson would of hit the referee,pulled a gun out or plain leaped over the top rope rather than face the humiliation of an Ali beating.......look how he reacted to a Holyfield battering and that wasnt half as bad as Ali would of embarrassed him.

I am only saying the best Tyson would beat the best Ali. Obviously Ali and many others had a better career, fought better opponents, etc, etc. Tyson was on the slide well before buster Douglas, he was going down hill as soon as cus damato died, what he could have done with more guidance from damato we will never know but what he did when cus was there I haven't seen anything like it. Ali,foreman, Frazier, etc all would have been humiliated on their best day. People talk about Holyfield, Bruno and others but none of these fights happened against Tyson anywhere near his best.

[BGD 6,431]

No doubt Cus's death had a huge effect on Tyson but he always had that mental weakness and Ali would of exploited it to the full. He broke much stronger men mentally than Tyson

[BGD 6,431]

I remember Tyson at a press conference screaming at someone in the crowd "I'll f**k you in the ass until you love me you f***ing faggot" :laugh: definitely sounds like someone that's got experience in that area

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

We talk about Tysons mental fragility, but just because it was evident later in his career doesn't mean it was always there . . Look at him around the time Berbick and Spinks, he was fecking fierce not fragile! I think he would have intimidated a silverback gorilla!

If you're going to scrutinise Tysons opponents, well do the same with Ali, who earned his greatness from beating the likes of Frazier, Norton, but they were only great because of their wins over Ali! Does anyone think a prime Tyson wouldn't have beat the likes of Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, surely not.

 

Ali's greatest triumph for me was over Foreman, where took a beating for 8 rounds to ko an exhausted Foreman who was wasn't anticipating going so long in degrees heat!! Ali got the decision that night, nothing more . . He was said to have passed blood in his urine the next day . . And as said earlier, rope a dope with Tyson?!? I wince at the thought! Hospital.

[Silversnake 1,099]

I remember Tyson at a press conference screaming at someone in the crowd "I'll f**k you in the ass until you love me you f***ing faggot" :laugh: definitely sounds like someone that's got experience in that area

He certainly had a lot of moments that made me cringe. But speed, power evasiveness, killer instinct and with cus damato's guidance, calming influence and strategy he was an absolute monster in the ring that could hardly be hit let alone beat. Imo no one has ever been as devastating in the ring. But the style damato utilised he still would have come unstuck when his reflexes and speed started to wane (not to mention his mental state) but I believe he would have been invincible for alot longer with damato in his corner and in his life. Once again that is just my opinion.

[shepp 2,285]

Tyson only real notable win, was against a blown up light heavyweight.

Every other decent opponent beat him.

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

You csnt make a decent argument for MT without a million what ifs, facts are douglas pummelled him in his prime and he lost every other really big fight there after. To say foreman wouldnt have beat him in his prime is a joke as he came back at nigh on 50 years old and became champ right in tysons era, like today tysons era was poor for HW and he couldnt even begin to dominate then, forget ali and foreman norton would have beat him along with many many other less well known boxers.

[TUFFTY 1,476]

Comparison

Comparison

 

You simply can't compare its ridiculous.

That was then

And this is now.

 

Fec me it's sounding like a ftm riddle

Lol lol

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

Tyson was a little like tuffty hed huff and puff and get in your head, but the second he got in a real fight hed fold like a pack of cards and claiming mental problems!

Edited December 5, 2015 by JDHUNTING

[TUFFTY 1,476]

Very funny says a man pretending to be an author

[TUFFTY 1,476]

And anyway.

It wasn't me giving out false address pretending to be a fury.

I gave him my real address.

 

And this Ali post seems ridiculous as half of you are saying hes the greatest and the same people are saying kill all the Muslims.

Wasnt/isnt the greatest a Muslim.

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

Ive never said ali is the greatest, though hes had the mist impressive career id put foreman and holmes infront of him in terms of on there best days. Just pullinv your leg about the brookie thing as your trying to kill a debate im enjoying dont take it to heart and whatever the author thing meant it went way above my head. :-)

[Silversnake 1,099]

Tyson only real notable win, was against a blown up light heavyweight.

Every other decent opponent beat him.

A case can be made many different ways for many different fighters as to who was the best of the best. I am not trying to convince anyone to agree with me but I am yet to see someone who I think could beat mike Tyson at his best and there is no way to prove that wrong and no way for me to prove it right and I am very stubborn so it is pointless for me to continue posting on this thread... However I also believe Joe Louis was a better boxer and definitely a better fighter than Ali. For me Ali's bad points and a lack of one punch knock-out power makes me think much of his greatness is only because of things that happened outside the ring rather than inside the ring and most of the crap that came out of his mouth did not impress me at all. While I still rate him very highly for his boxing achievements there is no way he is 'the greatest' in my eyes.

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

to call MT the greatest is like if AJ irons a few more bums out beats fury and then gets his arse handed to him by hughie fury then proclaiming him the greatest for the way he ko,d all those second rate opponents