Muhammad Ali

[Truther 1,579]

That fight winds me up, third go at a post Henry was cheated, can you ever be a "great" if any cheating's involved? Voted sportsman of the century despite the cheating, says a lot about society really? The "everybody cheats" argument isn't a good defense for that, although it works pretty well lol, its a reflection of how society is willing to accept dishonesty, and still hold people/groups in high esteem, when they set really bad examples.....conditioning

 

Bit deep maybe

[gnasher16 29,944]

Haye v klitchko is a perfect example imo, haye had the tools to beat him imo but would rather lose a decision than throw some lwather and see whos still standing afyer a few rounds

I believe a lot of that is to do with the fact that fighters can do the distance so easily today.......12 rounds is no longer enough to fully test the guts and resolve of a fighter and so the temptation to put the result into the judges hands instead of brawling it out leaves the door open to rematches in controversial decisions.......im of the opinion that the safety measures that are now in place and working enable the 15 round distance to be a viable option again......which i believe would see fighters more willing to duke it out knowing they might not be able to do the distance.......look how fresh fighters look after 12 rounds in todays times they should have absolutely nothing left but many still have plenty in the tank on hearing the final bell.

[BGD 6,428]

Fury still had enough wind to belt out a tune after going 12 rounds FFS!

[Silversnake 1,099]

I don't see anyone beating Mike Tyson in his prime when he had cus damato keeping his fragile psyche together imo. Ali was charismatic and had awesome boxing skills but had too many low acts,which always seem to be overlooked for some reason. I would never say I am a fan of Ali, some things he did in his life I find abhorrent.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Silversnake

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

 

 

Haye v klitchko is a perfect example imo, haye had the tools to beat him imo but would rather lose a decision than throw some lwather and see whos still standing afyer a few rounds

I believe a lot of that is to do with the fact that fighters can do the distance so easily today.......12 rounds is no longer enough to fully test the guts and resolve of a fighter and so the temptation to put the result into the judges hands instead of brawling it out leaves the door open to rematches in controversial decisions.......im of the opinion that the safety measures that are now in place and working enable the 15 round distance to be a viable option again......which i believe would see fighters more willing to duke it out knowing they might not be able to do the distance.......look how fresh fighters look after 12 rounds in todays times they should have absolutely nothing left but many still have plenty in the tank on hearing the final bell.

yes that aswell I definateley agree with

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

I don't see anyone beating Mike Tyson in his prime when he had cus damato keeping his fragile psyche together imo. Ali was charismatic and had awesome boxing skills but had too many low acts,which always seem to be overlooked for some reason. I would never say I am a fan of Ali, some things he did in his life I find abhorrent.

I really dont see MT as one of the greats in a skills sense he was good and had great power and at times showed heart but I think hed of allways struggled against good technical boxers who werent overawed by the character of him and got on ther toes and got there jab working previous greats like a prime larry holmes would of beat him ali for sure foreman for sure imo and with todays fighters the klithkos and furys with freakish reach and patience to bore a pts win would beat him to imo.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Ali must have been shaking his head in disbelief at the recent Fury Klitscko fight. The standard of heavyweight boxing has plummeted so much it's almost unrecognisable. It's mostly about over-sized freaks desperately keeping their head out of range of the other guy's punches.

I totally agree.....to be able to class the 2 eras as the same sport let alone the same division is almost embarrassing.......ive said for many years there has to come a time when a super heavyweight division comes into professional boxing......to think that hypothetically Tyson Fury would more than likely beat Muhammed Ali surely emphasises my point.

But the thing is giants have been in the sport since the beggining, it's just got to a stage where now their skills are sufficient enough to see them beat the smaller yet more skilled opponents. It's far from exciting or action filled but that's the way it is ATM.

im not sure I agree with any of that I just think the smaller hw drop down divisions nowadays and others just dont seem to throw caution to the wind and take the fight to the opponent. In todays game your marcianos fraziers and maybe even alis wouldnt be hws

Not at all, the Cruiswerweight division is a none entity. The money is in the Heavyweight division, Ali would have definitely been a Heavyweight today.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Ali must have been shaking his head in disbelief at the recent Fury Klitscko fight. The standard of heavyweight boxing has plummeted so much it's almost unrecognisable. It's mostly about over-sized freaks desperately keeping their head out of range of the other guy's punches.

 

I totally agree.....to be able to class the 2 eras as the same sport let alone the same division is almost embarrassing.......ive said for many years there has to come a time when a super heavyweight division comes into professional boxing......to think that hypothetically Tyson Fury would more than likely beat Muhammed Ali surely emphasises my point.

But the thing is giants have been in the sport since the beggining, it's just got to a stage where now their skills are sufficient enough to see them beat the smaller yet more skilled opponents. It's far from exciting or action filled but that's the way it is ATM.

Who was the last 6 ft 9 heavyweight to fight for a world title then ?..........i remember sparring Jimmy Oyebola back in the ,s he was about 6ft 8 or 9 i was a better fighter than him,better conditioned and physically tougher yet i couldnt land a glove on him and he ended up winning a British title !.......a fighter of that size with even average boxing ability and reasonable athletic movement can go much further than normal sized fighters with the same ability.

There was a 7ft Heavyweight Champion not so long ago in Valuev...... Of course the size is an advantage, still didn't stop the likes of Joe Louis beating them to a pulp back in his hey day.

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

No, all things taken into consideration DogFox . . If you pitted a 22 year old Clay, at his nimble float like a butterfly and sting like a bee best, lets say against Liston, Clay weighed around 15 stone . . Tyson from 20 years old was regularly over 15 and half stone come fight night. Look at the video I posted through minutes 6-7 .. frightening! Clay before his prison terms fought slow, pedestrian like heavyweights (compared to him) Tyson with that speed, strength, punch power, movement and angles . . I'm with nans pat "a young mike tyson would have sparked him" . .

 

If Cooper who was believed to have weighed only around 12 and a half stone at the time dropped Clay, I think "sparked" is spot on ! . . If you think of Ali later, against the likes of Frazier weighing under 14 and half stone. "biggest set of punchers the division has ever seen" no chance . . Ali playing "rope a dope" with Tyson I'll say no more !

 

I use to think Foreman and the way he threw from the floor would have caused Tyson trouble, but when I seen Foreman v Lyle, and the way Foreman was floored and hurt . . He would have been a sitting duck when Tyson's heavy artillery rolled in . . When fighters lose after their best, it really doesn't mean anything.

[desertbred 5,490]

Tyson himself admits Aii would have beaten him If HC was so good why didnt he win a world title ?because his eyes were tissue paper on a bad day ALI would have cut him to ribbons.

[Silversnake 1,099]

At the end of the day we can only speculate, but I think mike Tyson at his peak was better offensively and defensively than any other heavyweight in history and he definitely had a solid chin. That is not to say he had the best career because he did not improve with age and experience.

[scottish lurcher 185]

The only one missing was Marciano

great fighter and he could take a hit and give a massive one back think he would of beat him

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

No, all things taken into consideration DogFox . . If you pitted a 22 year old Clay, at his nimble float like a butterfly and sting like a bee best, lets say against Liston, Clay weighed around 15 stone . . Tyson from 20 years old was regularly over 15 and half stone come fight night. Look at the video I posted through minutes 6-7 .. frightening! Clay before his prison terms fought slow, pedestrian like heavyweights (compared to him) Tyson with that speed, strength, punch power, movement and angles . . I'm with nans pat "a young mike tyson would have sparked him" . .

 

If Cooper who was believed to have weighed only around 12 and a half stone at the time dropped Clay, I think "sparked" is spot on ! . . If you think of Ali later, against the likes of Frazier weighing under 14 and half stone. "biggest set of punchers the division has ever seen" no chance . . Ali playing "rope a dope" with Tyson I'll say no more !

 

I use to think Foreman and the way he threw from the floor would have caused Tyson trouble, but when I seen Foreman v Lyle, and the way Foreman was floored and hurt . . He would have been a sitting duck when Tyson's heavy artillery rolled in . . When fighters lose after their best, it really doesn't mean anything.

your rwmembering tyson as if he was fighting some #300 rank punchbag though, ali wouldnt stand there waiting to be hit hed be dancing all over and firin hes own shots in. MT would fold quickly from a foreman onslaught. Whose tysons best victory? Dont say holmes

[scottish lurcher 185]

 

No, all things taken into consideration DogFox . . If you pitted a 22 year old Clay, at his nimble float like a butterfly and sting like a bee best, lets say against Liston, Clay weighed around 15 stone . . Tyson from 20 years old was regularly over 15 and half stone come fight night. Look at the video I posted through minutes 6-7 .. frightening! Clay before his prison terms fought slow, pedestrian like heavyweights (compared to him) Tyson with that speed, strength, punch power, movement and angles . . I'm with nans pat "a young mike tyson would have sparked him" . .

 

If Cooper who was believed to have weighed only around 12 and a half stone at the time dropped Clay, I think "sparked" is spot on ! . . If you think of Ali later, against the likes of Frazier weighing under 14 and half stone. "biggest set of punchers the division has ever seen" no chance . . Ali playing "rope a dope" with Tyson I'll say no more !

 

I use to think Foreman and the way he threw from the floor would have caused Tyson trouble, but when I seen Foreman v Lyle, and the way Foreman was floored and hurt . . He would have been a sitting duck when Tyson's heavy artillery rolled in . . When fighters lose after their best, it really doesn't mean anything.

your rwmembering tyson as if he was fighting some #300 rank punchbag though, ali wouldnt stand there waiting to be hit hed be dancing all over and firin hes own shots in. MT would fold quickly from a foreman onslaught. Whose tysons best victory? Dont say holmes

frank Bruno hurt tyson lol

[DogFox123 1,379]

No, all things taken into consideration DogFox . . If you pitted a 22 year old Clay, at his nimble float like a butterfly and sting like a bee best, lets say against Liston, Clay weighed around 15 stone . . Tyson from 20 years old was regularly over 15 and half stone come fight night. Look at the video I posted through minutes 6-7 .. frightening! Clay before his prison terms fought slow, pedestrian like heavyweights (compared to him) Tyson with that speed, strength, punch power, movement and angles . . I'm with nans pat "a young mike tyson would have sparked him" . .

 

If Cooper who was believed to have weighed only around 12 and a half stone at the time dropped Clay, I think "sparked" is spot on ! . . If you think of Ali later, against the likes of Frazier weighing under 14 and half stone. "biggest set of punchers the division has ever seen" no chance . . Ali playing "rope a dope" with Tyson I'll say no more !

 

I use to think Foreman and the way he threw from the floor would have caused Tyson trouble, but when I seen Foreman v Lyle, and the way Foreman was floored and hurt . . He would have been a sitting duck when Tyson's heavy artillery rolled in . . When fighters lose after their best, it really doesn't mean anything.

 

Clay at 22 weighing 210lb beat the monster Liston who weighed 218lb, around the same weight has a prime Tyson. He did it with ease, Liston couldn't even find him let alone catch him. Name me any Heavyweight that has faced more bigger punchers in his career? Liston, Patterson, Frazier x 3, Williams, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers.....

 

You rave about Tyson but don't forget he was knocked senseless by a average hitting Journeyman in Douglas at the ripe old age of 23, Foreman would have bounced Tyson around the ring IMO.